Cost of FirstAlert

Ikeb · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:47 am Post subject:

Stan perhaps the guest didn't post his/her sentiments the way I would have but I can see the point being made. If FA! ever gets the kinks ironed out and it becomes a good way to filter out SPAM such that I can in fact auto-delete a high proportion of the SPAM I receive, why wouldn't I do so? This approach would not have me spending time confirming that yes this is in fact SPAM, click the report button, on to the next message same thing, on to the next message ... etc., click process.

So a user does spend time reporting this stuff. You might do it out of the goodness of your heart, because you hate SPAMers, or for some other reason perhaps. But will enough users do so? Remember that FA! depends on users reporting the stuff ... the more users, the better. It seems to me that it would be in FireTrust's best interest to come up with a reward mechanism that rewards SPAM reports and negates that reward for false SPAM reports.

I suggest that the reward need not be much (solid reporters could get a discounted subscription for the next year) but the effect is that more SPAM is reported, FA! hit rates improve, and more users buy the service.

Boo, if you want more details for such a concept explained in person, I'd be willing to truck over to your NZ office ... on your dime of course. Wink

Ikeb · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: Cost of FirstAlert

rusticdog · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 6:45 pm Post subject:

Removed unnecessary posts before the flaming begins Smile

Johnny Q · Guest

polyglory · Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 3:49 am Post subject:

I must admit , I was very surprised to see it removed.

For the life of me I could not see the reason why, but then I am an old fart and have seen it all before this PC baloney

AlphaCentauri · Captain Joined: Nov 20, 2003 Posts: 302 Location: USA

What about a penny-a-submission discount on the next year's subscription cost? I figure I could report 2000 spams they don't know about already during the testing phase. Then submitters are rewarded, and the product is worth more to non-submitters.

Ikeb · Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 7:40 pm Post subject:

I suggested something similar which a subsequent poster suggested was paying way too much since he reported 1000 + SPAMs in a week or less. Other suggestions have included a "top Reporter" ranking so as to appeal to our human desire for recognition (higher on the Maslov motivation scale).

The key to me though is to discourage bum reports by penalizing at a higher rate --- I suggested something like 100 x higher. By any such scheme, 1 bad report would wash out 100 good reports, a high enough penalty to give one pause before reporting a questionable message.

AlphaCentauri · Captain Joined: Nov 20, 2003 Posts: 302 Location: USA

That would make it more self policing, and would make it perhaps easier on the First Alert staff.

Ikeb · Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 8:10 pm Post subject:

I dunno about that. The system depends on two eyes being cast on the same message. I'd say it makes things tougher for FA! staff since a) the report volume would presumably increase and b) the fewer false positives would require FA! staff from becoming complacent.

.... Sort of like that soccer or hockey goalie on a good team having to stay alert so as to prevent that bad goal that would let the whole team down!

AlphaCentauri · Captain Joined: Nov 20, 2003 Posts: 302 Location: USA

But the difference with reporting to FA from MWP is that once FA has recognized something as "Known Spam" no one else can report it. The traffic can't increase beyond what is necessary to identify all the spam.

Ikeb · Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 8:43 pm Post subject:

I see your point, although it seems that FA! is not yet finding even 50% of the SPAM messages ... and SPAM rates seem to be escalating....

And keep in mind that the SPAM isn't recognized until FA! staff has reviewed and accepted the first report. The key to FA! success is not just percentage of reported SPAMs but also the speed with which those reports are made available to other FA! users.

This train of thought reminds me that an increased reporting volume could serve to assist FA! staff. If multiple reports match, that surely is stronger evidence of a SPAM, particularly when reported by reputable reporters ... assuming such logic has been codified that is! Wink

In that case, make it that the first three reporters are rewarded for a SPAM report.

Guest · Guest

I think that those of us who are using FA and sending Spam notifications to FA need to be careful about what we are calling Spam. I have been reporting instances where legitimate Internet retailers who I have given permission to send me email have had their email marked as known spam by the FA database. I have been reporting these as they occur and it takes more than a simple mouse click

AlphaCentauri · Captain Joined: Nov 20, 2003 Posts: 302 Location: USA

I agree. Of course, just because you have reason to have used a legitimate retailer and given them permission to contact you doesn't mean they don't spam, too.

For instance, I ordered one item from Walmart and started getting multiple promotional emails (I am reasonably sure I didn't opt in to these). There was no unsubscribe link, and no way on their website to edit my user preferences to stop it. (It finally stopped -- I think I contacted customer service to get off their list.)

Sir_Alan · Cadet Joined: Dec 21, 2003 Posts: 3 Location: UK

I am happy to continue with the trial in the hope that the hit rate improves; fortunately I do not get vast quantities of spam, but just to put things in perspective I have in the last half hour reported four Valium ads, none of which was recognised by FA! but all of which were trapped by my own simple filters; I also reported as an error a perfectly legitimate email from my bank informing me that my on-line statement was ready for viewing and which had been flagged as known spam. Accuracy rate: zero.

The present performance would certainly be entirely unacceptable for a paid-for service. Until I am asked to pay I will persevere.

stan_qaz · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:56 am Post subject:

Sorry you didn't like my statement but still it is true.

You get the code but you don't get access to the things that are an ongoing cost to Firetrust. Your bank gives you free checks but you'd better not use them unless you have deposited money first.


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