'The Passion of Christ'

shamash · Corporal Joined: Mar 21, 2004 Posts: 70 Location: USA

Just curious Zippy, have you read any of my other posts in the other threads? Are you assuming i am an atheist here? I may not be a Christian as you see it, but i am certainly no atheist. Very Happy

Just because i am not Christian doesn't mean i cannot quote from the Bible. Cool

ZippyZingo · Corporal Joined: Apr 07, 2004 Posts: 71 Location: USA

Sorry Shamash, I have read a lot of your other post and I do not think of you as an atheist. I did get the impression that you do not put a lot of stock in the Bible as a valid source of wisdom thus the of the cuff comment. Maybe I need to reread some of your other post.
Again, I am sorry if I stereotyped you.

shamash · Corporal Joined: Mar 21, 2004 Posts: 70 Location: USA

shamash · Corporal Joined: Mar 21, 2004 Posts: 70 Location: USA

shamash · Corporal Joined: Mar 21, 2004 Posts: 70 Location: USA

shamash · Corporal Joined: Mar 21, 2004 Posts: 70 Location: USA

Hi Zippy. No need for apologies. I just wouldn't want anyone thinking i am an atheist. But not because i feel that it is wrong to be one. It is up to each individual to decide that which they will be in life, and who am i to tell them otherwise.

Thriller · Trooper Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 31 Location: Singapore

ZippyZingo · Corporal Joined: Apr 07, 2004 Posts: 71 Location: USA

Thriller, Imagine that, you caught me.
Actually, I assumed that you would know that I was talking about the Bible since it is just about the only source of information about Jesus. But then you and Shamash seem to have access to info. that I do not. Your statements about Jesus' character did not leave much room for questions. Would you mind telling me your sources?

shamash · Corporal Joined: Mar 21, 2004 Posts: 70 Location: USA

Here's a good book to start your journey:

Holy blood, holy grail by Baigent, Leigh, & Lincoln.

SicPreFix · Sergeant Joined: Feb 21, 2004 Posts: 121 Location: Canada

Holy blood, Holy Grail, while very interesting and compelling has been fairly extensively discredited.

I'm afraid I cannot just point you to some easy place that shows you the dicrediting of the book though. I'm afraid you'll have to do as I did and do extensive research in some more critically valid journals and research papers.

Purely through serendipity I ended up doing some research projects in a college course I was in about 6 years ago that led me in the direction of discovering how fraudulent the book was.

Much of the research for the book was, sadly, fraudulent, and frequently based on groundless speculation. Too bad really. It was a very intriguing premise.

shamash · Corporal Joined: Mar 21, 2004 Posts: 70 Location: USA

Yes SicPreFix

There are always debunkers of every new book(of course i'm speaking of the time of its actual release) that dares to challenge the current state of thinking or should i say delusion-in this case. I'll bet twenty quid those so-called research papers were written by catholic or christian writers. But it matters not because time marches on and the truth is unstoppable. More and more scrolls will be discovered to support the truth of this and other works that describe Christs true life and teachings. Just wait till Mary's diary is interpreted correctly.

SicPreFix · Sergeant Joined: Feb 21, 2004 Posts: 121 Location: Canada

You would lose your twenty quid or so.

As a matter of fact the papers were academic papers and research reports written by disinterested social scientists, history professors, and archaeologists with no particular Christian leanings or affiliations whatsoever. Had there been a strong Christian bias, let alone a Catholic bias, we would have had to discredit, or at least question the validity of the research.

You see, that's how credible science and other research is done; by credible researchers with unallied backgrounds. Research done by any group that has a strong personal interest in a specific outcome is always questioned with a very skeptical eye.

Furthermore, the research was done over several years, some within about five years of when the book was released some much more recent. It's an empty and meaningless statement, which you are utterly unable to back up, to claim that because some debunking was done near the date of release of the book that debunking is therefore invlaid.

To claim that Holy Blood, Holy Grail represents the current state of thinking (thinking of what Shamash?) is completely ludicrous. What on Earth, other than specious, tittilating sensationalism, do you have to back up such an all-encompassing, global statement?

It would seem that like the religionists you are rather nervous about looking at the other side of your fanciful beliefs. If you wish to paint academic research with the same sort of silly all-colours brush that religionists paint anything non-religious, by all means do so. But, as you say, the truth, whatever it may be and however fleeting, is unstoppable.

shamash · Corporal Joined: Mar 21, 2004 Posts: 70 Location: USA

What academic papers? What research reports? Who are these esteemed scientists, historians, and archaeologists? Disinterested? Then why did they write these reports? You sure know alot about these scientists and reports and yet cannot provide any proof. So far you haven't provided one shred of proof to back up what your saying. So who's statements are empty and meaningless?

I never said h.b.h.g. represents the current state of thinking. What i intended, in my other post, was the current state of christian thinking. My fault i should have been more clear on that one. Here's what it should have said: "There are always debunkers of every new book that dares to challenge the current state of christian thinking..."

Finally, i'm not nervous to look into the facts my friend. Provide some proof in the form of names and research reports and i will be more than happy to investigate further. Until i have them i can only assume they are debunkers. I could just as easily say top scientists claim we are all really lizards in disguise and just visiting this planet on a field trip. But without the proof it is worthless veribage.

SicPreFix · Sergeant Joined: Feb 21, 2004 Posts: 121 Location: Canada

Listen you offensive little nitpicker, I've explained that I researched and read those papers many years ago while doing research for a long and involved project I was doing at the time. I had no need or reason to hold on to them - lo how I wish I was prescient and knew I'd encounter a little jackdaw like yourself, then I'd have held on to all my unnecessary, out of date, and of little interest to me now papers just for the likes of you.

If you've ever done any serious academic research, which I highly doubt judging by your attitude, and comments, then you well know that it's a long and involved job to track down that kind of data and information. Further more, such research is not my specialty, my work, or my focus, so I would have no reason to either hang on to it, or to keep an index of all the stuff I read at that time.

It takes many weeks of long days buried in a library, tracking down paper after paper, book after book, and so on. If you are unable to accept that, that's your problem. And if you think I'm going to go back into the library and do another few weeks of research to dig up all those papers just to satisfy a defensive little tweeter, you got another think coming.

For your futher education (from the Oxford dictionary):

disinterested adj. unbiased, impartial; not influenced by one's own advantage.

Rolling Eyes

shamash · Corporal Joined: Mar 21, 2004 Posts: 70 Location: USA

Well, i see this thread is going nowhere. You would rather resort to name calling than discussing things like a mature adult. A rather juvenile display. Really, i expected more from you Sic. But judging from your other posts/threads, you just can't seem to get along with anyone around here. I thought we were having a simple discussion, but You seem to prefer to argue and insult others when you can't back up what your saying.

My friendly advice:

Next time before you post something be prepared that someone may come along and shoot your theory full of holes. And if you don't have anything to back it up, you may just walk away looking like a complete fool. Wink


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