The Cowardly Spanish

aspydestra · Trooper Joined: Apr 17, 2004 Posts: 10 Location: Uk

"COWARDICE"
"STUPID EUROPEANS"
"WE CANT HELP IT IF THE REST OF YOU ARE SPANISH"
"STUPID COMPLAINERS"
"SPANISH ARE COWARDS OR FOOLS"

These comments by JaMMIN are deeply offensive to "Europeans"
They must be against the sites Code of Conduct and an incitement to racial hatred.

Has Jammin ever thought that the "Spanish" people do not want their troops to be there.
The majority of the masses of Europe do not agree with America but our governments have an obligation.
The government has an obligation, the voters dont!

Jamming · Colonel Premium Member Joined: Jun 22, 2002 Posts: 1874

Never thought of the Spanish as a race, just a Nation. Never thought of Europeans as a race either. Neither violates the AUP but nice try, you cannot defend their votes so you attack the messenger.

However, I have thought of both as Cowards and unwilling to do the things that need to be done. It doesn't matter that people vote, with their cowardice, just because they vote that way doesn't make them any less craven.

aspydestra · Trooper Joined: Apr 17, 2004 Posts: 10 Location: Uk

Jamming · Colonel Premium Member Joined: Jun 22, 2002 Posts: 1874

I am not bigoted, there are also Moroccans, Basque and other minorities in Spain. There are many minorities in France as well. Bigoted would mean I am judging you by your place of origin, rather I am judging you by your actions.

Europeans tried to appease Hitler's fanatics and look what it got them that time. Look at the Invasions of Europe, one through Spain by the Arab Islamists and the Balkans by Turkish Islamists. Both were turned back only after many had died.

However, the British seem to understand that you cannot appease those dedicated to your destruction. They learned from their mistake on Hitler and many of their countrymen paid the price. Spain eventually had the Reconquista and reconquered the land from the Arabs which took it. How many must die before you see the writing on the wall.

Its nice to live at the protection of others who keep the nasty people away from you. Then you have the freedom to call us pompous and knowing best. Under a Fundamentalist Wahadist Islamic rulership, your choice is convert or die, until the whole world is one under Islam.

aspydestra · Trooper Joined: Apr 17, 2004 Posts: 10 Location: Uk

Now that is more like a ration argument Jammin and I respect you for that.
I probably agree with most of your sentiments, it is just the way the American forces in general act and are portrayed when in a conflict situation that get up everyones noses.
While the British troops are trying to diffuse tension the Americans are accused of bieng heavy handed and are creating a situation whereby it is dangerous for British troops to be seen in the presence of Americans.
I believe that it is not the US policy but the actions of the irresponsible that have led to this current situation.
I think that you as a nation should look hard at why there is a gathering momentum of hate against America on a international scale unpecedented in earlier years.
Gain respect, lead by example not brute force.
As a horticulturist inevetably I have to end with the words of the 60s/70s
Take this Flower of Peace.

Jamming · Colonel Premium Member Joined: Jun 22, 2002 Posts: 1874

When the UN is not a world government, the corruption in the UN in the former Iraq regimes' interaction with the Oil-for-Food program is a prime example of it. International Law and Opinion is only respected as a tool against the United States. They burn the corpses of four independent contractors and we are keeping people in prison in Guantanamo. Now who does the International Press complain about, why us of course. The four guys who bodies were burned and hung up, well that's just what those Americans deserve.

Before 9-11 International Press were telling us how International Communities protected one another. Then after 9-11 they told us the people of those communities would stand by us. We don't believe you anymore and we are no longer worried about your opinions, because you never backed them up when we needed you, with a few exceptions. The International Community has failed us, we will not be the sitting duck target, believing in that myth again.

aspydestra · Trooper Joined: Apr 17, 2004 Posts: 10 Location: Uk

The iternational communities promised to stand by you in your fight against terrorism and still do.
Iraq however was not a country supporting terrorism until now that is.
We have given the the insurgents the opportunity to seek help from those organisations.
In any war there are civilians who will get draw into the situation and some will lose their lives. How many ordinary civilians of Iraq have lost their lives, would you like to make a guess? and include the military of the countries whom you no longer believe in, that have been killed by so called "friendly" fire from trigger happy military personell.
Please do not use 9-11 as an excuse for war mongering in Iraq.

Jamming · Colonel Premium Member Joined: Jun 22, 2002 Posts: 1874

Yeah, OK then why did Sadaam have a attache in Pakistan whose job was to work with Al'queda before 9-11? Not connected, yeah right!

NPonthehudson · Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:55 am Post subject:

Normally, I don't like to stick my head into the middle of a political debate, but I must support Jamming on this one. He is right on about Pakistan, but you should also know this...

Regarding ties between Iraq and Al-Queda, let us not forget Salman Pak, home of the terrorist training center in Iraq, and the satellite photos, which PROVED the Connection Between Iraq and Al-Queda Terrorists. Five different eyewitnesses - three Iraqi defectors and two American U.N. inspectors - said - and there are aerial photographs to show it - a Boeing civilian airliner at Salman Pak was used for training of hijackers, including non-Iraqi hijackers trained very secretly to take over airplanes with knives.

Another intriguing coincidence: Salman Pak's hijacking school reportedly opened for business in 1995, the same year al-Qaeda agents in the Philippines hatched a plot to hijack 12 airliners and slam some of them into U.S. landmarks.

This is must-read, chilling stuff on Saddam training hijackers.
PBS: Transcript of Frontline's Interview with Captain Khodada at: www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/...odada.html

And if that isn't enough, read this:
www.warriorsfortruth.com/al-queda-iraq-connection.html

I live in NYC, and I saw the damage done to the WTC, TWICE, by these deplorable sociopaths. I worked in the bowels of the aftermath of 9-11 picking up body parts to return to family members, so they could have some peace.

If we are truly going to claim to be decent people, our tears must flow not only for those of our own country. People are people, and grief that is limited to those within a specific political boundary denies the humanity of others. And if we are to be decent people, we all must demand of our governmentthe government that a great man of peace, Martin Luther King Jr., once described as the greatest purveyor of violence in the worldthat the insanity stop here...

With great sadness and empathy for all living creatures, I have to say that I do not believe that is possible, given the insanity of our enemies...who are, by definition, sociopaths, and insane themselves, since they have no sense of what is right or wrong. They are lacking a conscience, and that, my friends, is what scares me...

NPonthehudson · Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 2:12 am Post subject: One more thing!!!

BTW, don't forget, EACH OF US knows only what our governments allow us to know... or what they want the press to publicize.
We don't know the truth; none of us in any nation does...
So, it is really silly for us to debate when we really don't know the facts.

I think the greatest danger lies in the separation of the US and her European allies...and in the dissent on the part of Americans, who, by not supporting this unfortunate war, play right into the hands of our enemies...
A divided nation cannot stand!

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!!!
(Sorry...that is the eternal optimist in me that just blurted out!)

aspydestra · Trooper Joined: Apr 17, 2004 Posts: 10 Location: Uk

NPonthehudson · Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:24 pm Post subject: extremists=psychotics

If we are truly going to claim to be decent people, our tears must flow not only for those of our own country. People are people, and grief that is limited to those within a specific political boundary denies the humanity of others.

I used to think that if we are to be decent people, we all must demand of our governmentthe government that a great man of peace, Martin Luther King Jr.once described as the greatest purveyor of violence in the worldthat the insanity stop here...

With great sadness and empathy for ALL living creatures, I have to say that I no longer believe that is possible, given the insanity of our enemies, who are, by definition, sociopaths, and insane themselves, since they have no sense of what is right or wrong. They are lacking a conscience, and that,is what scares me the most!

We cannot go to them, like hippies in the sixties, and offer a "flower of peace", much less assume that these evil despots are capable of exhibiting "rational" behavior.

These people have been raised as terrorists since childhood. This is not an issue for them, but a lifestyle!

You cannot believe that a man who signs on as a suicide bomber, would be willing to give it all up in the name of democracy, when he truly believes that, after his evil deed has been perpetrated, his family will be rewarded financially, that he will be held in the highest esteem as a sacrifice for Allah...AND he will be greeted by 72 Vestal Virgins at Heaven's Gate! How can a democracy compete with that?!
How can we expect to rationalize, in a peaceful fashion, with someone who has been brainwashed?

In a free society like ours, we will always be vulnerable. The best chance you have is to either make peace with your enemies, or destroy them where they live. (BTW, the terroristic threats continued even after Spain announced it's intention to withdraw.)

I don't think we have much chance of making peace with religious zealots that hold our very freedoms as personal blasphemy, so that leaves us with one option; total destruction.

How do you go about doing that? Attack them militarily, economically, and socially by converting the very environment they are able to thrive in, into a hostile environment for extremists. (i.e. change totalitarian regimes into democracies)

It seems to me, as a nation, we are on the right course. I do think that it will work, but it will take a generation for things to really change. People have to be born in the new environment before we will see the mindset of religious extremists eradicated. It's going to take a long time.

We just started a war aginst our enemies, but they have been attacking us for years!

Our only hope is to wipe out terrorism as quickly as possible, in the home of it's inception, and to bring our boys home safely!

aspydestra · Trooper Joined: Apr 17, 2004 Posts: 10 Location: Uk

Jamming · Colonel Premium Member Joined: Jun 22, 2002 Posts: 1874

Why should we care? What has the World done for us?

You don't understand about our enemies, they hate us and you because you stand in the way of Islam.

What about our Prison's? They are run the same way they always were, poorly by state governments. Federal Prisons are run much more efficiently but still not perfect.

Guantanamo is a Prison for foreign nationals that was established for a specific purpose, to hold terrorist caught at sites where combat was taking place. Like the UK has any great record on handling terrorists prisoners, what was the group the IRA at Gibraltar gunned down while unarmed?

comomolo · Cadet Joined: May 02, 2004 Posts: 2 Location: Spain

Dear Jamming:

Basques are just another group of Spanish citizens, a major one and probably the richest one (along with the Catalonians), not a "minority". Moroccans are a minority made mostly of illegal immigrants (although there are also legal ones, of course). Putting both groups in the same sentence as "Spanish minorities" is just another display of American ignorance, but don't worry, we're used to it.

Talking about the Basque country, ETA is a terrorist group, not a "separatist group" as the American and English press likes to call them. They've been killing for more than 30 years now. Unlike Americans who are pretty new to terrorism, we know very well what that is. Saying we caved-in after a blast in Madrid (another one, just not signed by the regulars, for a change) is simply stupid. If anything, we're almost used to bombs in our streets trying to force us politically. But don't worry, as I said, we're used to American ignorance, and nobody really cares.

We Spaniards had a great laugh when we learned that some Americans were pressing other Americans to stop eating Burritos and Tacos because they think that's Spanish food. Well, it's not. It's Mexican food and you'll have a hard time trying to find it outside the main cities in Spain, and even there you'll find few Mexcian restaurants...The whole world is used to American childish ignorance and nobody really cares.

We remember Jeb Bush in a speech last year in Madrid, when our former president decided to get us into that war we didn't want. He referred to Mr. Aznar as the President of the Spanish Republic. Great laughs in all our news media, bars, living rooms, etc. (Spain is a Monarchy, not a Republic). Or when he promised great advantages for the Spanish people as a reward for pushing the war. Most Spaniards were watching their TVs saying "Who's this idiot and what the hell is he talking about? Can you pass me the salt, please? Thanks, (etc., just add any smalltalk chit-chat here)" We're not used to rewards like in the Wild West, you know? It just sounded out of place. Then somebody said he was the one counting the votes for his brother in Florida and everything made sense again. "Oh, I see, *that* guy...". Nice guy, gave us some good laughs. Jeb went back home and nobody really cared.

Just save your anger and your efforts because Spain is a free country and we vote whatever we like best, no matter what dumbasses like you and other ignorant Americans have to say.

Really: we couldn't care less about what you or even your government has to say about what we vote. Just imagine how much you care about what we think about you when you vote your presidents or when you don't even know how to count votes, etc., and then you'll get an idea...

Oh, and just FYI, according to polls published last week, some 30% of the voters for the Partido Popular (the ones who lost last election, to make it easy for you) agree with our goverment's decision to bring back the troops from a war we never wanted. That makes more than 80% of the Spanish people agreeing with that decision. A figure that doesn't seem to have changed for a whole year... (no blasts a year ago, BTW).

I just happened to pass by and found your unfortunate and ignorant remarks and insults to me as a Spaniard as well as my compatriots, and wanted to say hello. Nothing else because, to be honest, who the hell cares?

Regards,

CM


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