++++++++++ Bible Oddities++++++++++

ekrubtap

Does God tell Lies? Apparently so. Yahweh warned Adam and Eve that if they ate the fruit, they would die that very day(Gen2:17). The serpent told them , no, you will not die, it'll open your eyes. the serpent was right, God was wrong. Their eyes are opened, and they didn't die "that very day" Adam, in fact, apparently lived to the ripe old age of 930 years (Gen5:5).

And not only did they not die, but Adam, (not Eve) "became as one of us" Yes, "us", plural. "And the Lord God said, 'The man has now become like one of us." Who is the "us", these peers, that God is talking to and about. Zeus, Thor, Shiva, and the rest of the pantheon?

So God fibbed. What other immoral acts might the deity have perpetrated here. How about the fact that G had framed A & E? That's right, set them up for the fall. Don't believe me? Why would G put them to a test they were bound to fail. Remember, they were innocent, They had no way of knowing good from evil before eating from the tree. No way to judge what was right and what was wrong. They were blameless.

And they were not, contrary to popular belief, expelled from the garden for snacking on the tree of knowledge. "And the Lord God said, 'The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever. So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken" (Gen3:22-23). It was to prevent Adam from noshing on the tree o' life and gaining immortality that he was banished, I guess God figured it was already pretty crowded with those other deities he was talking to.

Well, Adam didn't get to live forever, though after 930 years it probably seemed to him as though he had. And note above that Eve was not banished from the garden, just Adam. Compensation for not becoming "as one of us", I guess.

And of course you realize that for humanity to progress beyond A & E, the rule of thumb had to be incest for a few generations, with the attendant geneological hazards. The same situation ensues post Noah as well. Multi-generational incest or no extrapolation of humanity.

The main problem here is not the morality, it can be argued that just because it is immoral doesn't mean it didn't happen. The main problem is biological. Inbreeding causes severe retardation, mutation and infertility. This happens in isolated populations even when there are more then two families involved, nevermind just one. The problem increases with severity the more the inbreeding occurs. And we're talking lifespans of up to 900+ years.

Given the impossibility, we're left with myth.

SicPreFix · Sergeant Joined: Feb 21, 2004 Posts: 121 Location: Canada

Given the time, and the energy, one could quite thoroughly put together an essay on how the bible quite completely contradicts itself. Actually, some work in that area has been done, but damn me if I can remember where or by whom.

One of the most important and fundamental sources of the power of the bible, all religious texts, and of course religions in general, is the open endedness of it all, which of course allows for a multitude of endless reinterpretations even within a single instance, perpetuating a sort of fluid, everchanging core meaning. Now certainly to the rational mind, based on reason, logical process, and so forth, it becomes quite clear, quite quickly that this endless flow of ephemeral reinterpretation actually renders much of the bible, especially when taken as a whole, as really quite meaningless.

But then, what do I know? I've only studied the big book with an open, unblindered mind, and well, really, I mean Mrs. Hoppes thinks I'm a foul sinner and blasphemer, and that "silly, silly man" thinks I'm nuts. But, hey, if God made me crackers then I guess it's all his fault that I'm not quite balanced eh?

Laughing

MrsHoppes · Sergeant Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 122 Location: USA

Adam and Eve died in the spirit. They had immortality.
There was no death, destruction, illness, weeds, thorns or painful childbirth till then. (Remembering the back labor, dry birth. Thanks, Eve!)

Husbands and wives were on more equal footing. The roles of husband and wife (wife being submissive, husband being the head) didn't come into being till after eating the fruit.

The world was different then. And then Eve ignored God and listened to the serpent and gave into her own desires.

As for "inbreeding", the issue of mental retardation and other problems were not an issue for a few generations. The world is getting worse and worse. There are more and more cases of diabetes, autism, mental retardation, downs syndrom, and I can go on and on and on. These were not issues 4500 (Noah's flood time) years ago.
When they became an issue (again, thank Eve) God put a stop to it. (Leviticus)

And, Sic... foul sinner and blasphemer though you be, know that both God and I still love you.
Keep asking questions. Keep learning. Maybe, you'll realize God's grace and mercy is for you too.

SicPreFix · Sergeant Joined: Feb 21, 2004 Posts: 121 Location: Canada

MrsHoppes · Sergeant Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 122 Location: USA

"And it was good"

ekrubtap · Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:09 am Post subject:

MrsHoppes · Sergeant Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 122 Location: USA

Just for clarification, we (my family) does not celebrate easter. We celebrate the ressurection of our Lord. We don't do bunnies laying eggs or easter egg hunts. We go to church. We pray and sing and praise and worship.

chickengirl · Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:26 pm Post subject:

(((Wow Mrs. Hoppes)))...I see we have a common practice, in NOT celebrating Easter... Very Happy

We celebrate Passover, 2 weeks after the first day of Spring...and I'm glad to see that ekrubtap understands the true meaning of Easter, Smile

which so much of the Christian world doesn't seem to get...Way back "when" some smarty-pants priests thought "what a great way to get to the heathen"....hmmm..."evil communications corrupt good manners"...(1 Corinthians 15:33) the children of Israel, were told to have no part of these heathen rituals...so gradually Passover became Easter...gee, I wonder who got to who??? Evil or Very Mad

For you guys that are so interested in the Bible, but think it is a bunch of bunk, have you tried "studying" it with a Strongs concordance?...it has the Hebrew, and Chaldee, and the Greek dictionary in it. It really helps shed "light" on the Scripture...like for instance in Acts 12:14, (the only place in the King James where the word Easter is found)...look up the word Easter, in the Greek, and it is translated Pascha...duh...Passover, which Christ became for us when He shed His Blood (1 Corinthians 5:7)...(Woe to you Scribes and Pharisees...) He became our Passover, not our Easter...yuck...the word sets my teeth on edge...

TMOV · Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:51 pm Post subject:

ekrubtap · Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:38 pm Post subject:

ekrubtap · Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:59 am Post subject:

Here's a Strong's aficionado............
http://www.christ-centeredkabbalah.org/...ts5514.htm

chickengirl · 4-16-04 036.gif

You know ekrubtap...If I didn't know better, I would think you were scoffing at me Cool

I... have to say that you have an awesome mind, and I enjoy reading your comments, though sometimes I have to read them several times...you really ARE out there... but I enjoy a cosmic ride...and I appreciate people who excercise the gray matter...you've got a "Charles Atlas" brain.....and lucky for you that our, (yes I say our Very Happy

) Father's "gifts" are without repentance...(Romans 11:29)
I did check out the sites that you posted, and have to say there are a lot of goof-balls out there...I can't base my own comprehension, on anothers interpretations.
The guy at the Christ centered kaballah site seems to have taken one too many trips on acid or something...these types of people change their minds constantly...("I have a NEW word from God for you!!!")...God NEVER changes, (or lies either). When the veil was rent from top to bottom upon Christs death, exposing the "altar," we no longer needed priests as go-betweens for us and our Father...we have full admission with permission to have an audience with God at any time...
The liberal Christian site did say a couple of thing that I totally agree with: "True Biblical theology begins not with Church tradition and dogma..." You do have to have some understanding of the colloquialisms, and customs of the day...Mens traditions and dogma are the "leaven" which Christ talks about...

Matthew 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the LEAVEN of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Matthew 16:11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the LEAVEN of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?

Matthew 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the DOCTRINE of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Luke 12:1 In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the LEAVEN of the Pharisees, which is HYPOCRISY.

1Corinthians 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

1Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened.(without doctrine) For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

1Corinthians 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the UNLEAVENED BREAD, OF SINCERITY AND TRUTH.

Galatians 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. Smile

I also agree with the liberal Christians that it is never our place to judge anyone. A lot of us see ourselves through "rose colored glasses"...We'd be much more in line with Christ's teachings if we were to turn the glasses around, and see our brothers and sisters through them. There are a lot of Christians that are going to get a spanking one day for turning people away from our Father, through their zealous, opinionated diatribe.

Luke 17:1 Then said He unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, THROUGH whom they come!
Luke 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. (little ones would be either the young, or INTERESTED in Christ... not just the wee ones)

I remember a time before I became a Christian, visiting with a friend of my dear Grandmother's (who gave up 70 years as a Catholic to become a Baptist...)...this friend had been on me so bad, and in my frustration I began crying...she mistakenly thought it was because I had been touched by the Holy Spirit...I was crying because I loved my Grandmother so very much, and couldn't believe she was hanging out with this zealot...

Matthew 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's
eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Matthew 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the
mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own
eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy
brother's eye.

BTW...Christ did make Saul an apostle, who became Paul upon his conversion...
Christmas: Christ became "Emmanuel, God with us," on December 25...this is when Mary conceived...(the abortion rights people would hate this)
I couldn't find the scripture in Philippians, referring to Paul's warning against OT practices...But I do know that the ORDINANCES were nailed to the tree...(Colossians 2:13) Christ being the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the World"...It would be a slap in Christ's Face, to offer up a dove, or unblemished lamb, when His Blood spilled for us. No "scape-goats" either!
And what a question about Christ's siblings... I only really knew about 2 brothers...I believe they remained single...and I know His cousin John (the Baptist) wasn't married...But it is a good question...Now I must seek!
Oh and as far as "inbreeding" after the flood of Noah's time...the flood was in a specific geographical location...not the whole world as some claim...not all flesh was destroyed. Just the flesh that had the "breath of life"...it is these types of claims that make us look like a bunch of nutz...There is so much more to this, and I could go on, but I have to get some housework done! It does take me some time to gather my facts...

So last night, while lying in bed, I am praying, my husband is snoring...I am asking Father to give my new friends ekrubtap, and SicPreFix special blessings...sort of a spiritual hug, if you will...and I am laying there laughing (cause of my friend names...I probably do need to get out more) and my husband says "huh?"..."nothin honey...just prayin'..."
Buh bye for now...

chickengirl · Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:09 pm Post subject:

Hey how did you get the dancing bannana where you did??? I want a dancing bannana too...my emoticon isn't moving Crying or Very sad

ekrubtap · Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:55 pm Post subject:

Oh no, chickengirl, (A)I don't know you well enough yet to be scoffing. Laughing

(B) Your posts are too reasoned to be easily scoffable. And I hope I would not scoff undeservedly.
My brain is average. I do a lot of reading. (practically every spare moment, always have a book with me, books stacked by the bed, an incureable reader) and just research what I need to know and don't.
It's true, I tend to be somewhat mocking re Christianity, Judaism, Muslimism (is that a word?) and all the other supernaturalisms. I try to keep a bit of a curb on it but, it can be hard at times. It probably stems from overexposure to too many Monty Python movies in my youth.
Oh, and the second post (the "goofballs" ...If any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.--1 Cor.14:3435) was a throwaway, not directed specifically at you, though I could have been a little clearer about that I 'spose.

Re God doesn't change. But he/she started out so nasty, evolved into Love perdeified, and now you'd almost think the old Yaweh was back with a vengence, crushing the innocent beneath the wheels of his flaming chariot. (yes, I've stretched the point, but the point was there begging enstretchment)

Re Saul/Paul. Still problematic. As I said earlier, I've seen biblical definition stating that apostles were apostles by appointment of JC only. I see where Saul/Paul introduces himself in his epistles. as Paul the Apostle by the will of God. esp.in Galations where he goes to great lengths to present his bona fides (..."before God, I do not lie" Doth protest too much, perhaps?....."But if through my falsehood ("lie" in K.J.V.), God's truthfulness abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned ("judged" in K.J.V.), as a sinner?" Romans 3:7 (N.R.S.V.)) Saul/Paul apparently never met Jesus. His only "authority" is his alleged revelation. And given the discrepencies between Acts 22 and 26 re just what JC allegedly said to Saul/Paul (two distinctly different statements, not a typo),
and his admitted tendency towards untruth, I can't see any veracity in Paul, at all. And without Paul, you basically have no Christianity.

Which may all be a moot point as this particular Jesus was not the Messiah. Big mistake. Wrong guy. The Messiah as prophesysed in the old testament was to be of the House of David. Which worked fine (so they say) up to Joseph. However, the powers that wrote the bible, in a moment of blind insanity, forgot that Jesus was not of Joseph's seed. thus not of the House of David.

In Paul's letter to Timothy, 2nd Timothy 3:16, 17 he writes, "All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable..."
In Isaiah 55:11 God speaks; "So shall my word be which goes forth from my mouth. It shall not return to me empty without accomplishing what I desire and without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it."

Kind of demonstrably not true, I would think. Or the world would be an entirely different place. And I guess this is one of my main bones of contention with the bible. It can be and is used to illustrate any point of view you would care to express. We (those of us with a functioning mind, that is) discard the obviously ridiculous, such as... " It is good for a man not to touch a woman."--1 Cor.7:1... Good ol" Paul, but then the second coming was to be any second, why bother getting carnal) and yet swear the rest is true. For the word of God, it's just too muddled and imprecise. Yes. I realise it's not muddled to you. But neither is it muddled to the fundamentalist, the protestant, the catholic, the David Koresh's, the church of the blessed slobovian, or basically anyone who seeks any sort of meaning from it. to whatever end. Good or evil.
We have seen the Devil and he are us. All we have to do now is become God.

Have a good week-end, chickengirl (love your nom-de-cyber, sounds like a superhero.

The dancing banana can be found by clicking on the barely visible white print at the bottom of the emoticon stack to the left of the reply window.

cheers.......

TMOV · Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:00 am Post subject:

hey pat ,
hebrew law states it's the mothers' family line that determines it.
Which may all be a moot point as this particular Jesus was not the Messiah. Big mistake. Wrong guy. The Messiah as prophesysed in the old testament was to be of the House of David. Which worked fine (so they say) up to Joseph. However, the powers that wrote the bible, in a moment of blind insanity, forgot that Jesus was not of Joseph's seed. thus not of the House of David.
see the lineage of mary
t


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