I'd like to hear your opinion...

NPonthehudson · Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:42 pm Post subject: I'd like to hear your opinion...

I'd like to hear your opinion...
on the Condoleeza Rice testimony today.

She said,
"The terrorists were at war with us, but we were not yet at war with them. For more than 20 years, the terrorist threat gathered, and America's response across several administrations of both parties was insufficient".

"Tragically, for all the language of war spoken before September 11, this country simply was not on a war footing ... There was no silver bullet that could have prevented the 9/11 attacks."

How do you all feel about that Question

Ali

parputt · Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:30 am Post subject:

I say BS. They were collecting intelligence and should have been better prepared. NO, I do not think the attack could have been prevented, but the magnitude probably could have been reduced if people were put on alert.

I work in law enforcement and we were never told anything. Then a few days after 9/11 we are getting all these detailed alerts with mugshots etc. They had the information and failed to realize or refused to realize the impending doom.

Granted I am all for preventing mass hysteria, but in this case I think people sitting at home in their closets would have been a good idea.

Jamming · Colonel Premium Member Joined: Jun 22, 2002 Posts: 1874

The problem that people don't realize is the sheer level of threats against the United States. We collect intelligence on everything and everybody that we can. How do you see into the hearts and minds of people to seperate the rhetoric from the true threats.

Look at how the Secret Service works to protect the President. They assume the worse at every step of the President's schedule, taking every threat as potentially the one that will try and hurt him. That is just one man and this Secret Service detail cost the taxpayers hundreds of million of dollars. Try multiplying that by 280+ Millions of Americans and we would spend thousands of times more the USA's Gross National Product.

Since the Cold War was over, the Intelligence Budget was slashed and the so called Peace Dividend was spent on the prosperous 90's. We mortgaged our future on the assumption that we were not really at war. This was the type of thing that people like Clarke oversaw, now he is getting his Jolly's blaming Rice, who didn't promote him when he asked. This was his payback sweet and simple, for a problem Clarke helped to create.

k027 · Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:21 am Post subject:

With the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, it appears that the government had enough data to indicate there was a serious threat, but noone was able to "connect-the-dots". This resulted from:

*Too much info, and - to paraphrase Jamming - not enough resources to separate real threats from background noise.

*People not communicating effectively. Rice mentioned in her testimony that various agencies had small pieces of info that by themselves meant little, but when collected together indicated a significant threat.

Solutions? Just like everything else, there will never be enough resources to do everything. We need to figure out how to use existing resources more effectively, i.e. better management - need more career pros, less political appointees in key positions? As for getting agencies to communicate better with one another, maybe we need a reorganization of intelligence agencies as was done with security agencies with the creation of the Dept. of Homeland Security.

parputt · Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 6:47 pm Post subject:

Karay · Sergeant Joined: Mar 29, 2004 Posts: 98 Location: USA

I'll keep my answer really short and simple.... Yes, I believe her, and yes, I agree with what was said. Prior to 9-11, the USA averaged more than 3,000 threats a year against our own soil. It would be impossible to act on them all.... then, or now. And as such, it is impossible to protect against every scenario, unless we become a military state. And even then, it really can't be done.... so in retrospect, hindsight is always more clear when tying to determine which threats are actually real, and which are nothing more than a ruse, misdirection, or maybe....????

Karay

NPonthehudson · Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:45 pm Post subject: jets as missles

In 2001, prior to 9/11, Bush appointed Cheney to oversee a coordinated national effort to protect against a terrorist attack using weapons of mass destruction.
At the time, the U.S. concern about terror was heavily focused on Iraq and rogue states, and missile defense was viewed as a weapon against that terrorism -- a different interpretation of the leading threats and responses that would take hold after jetliners hit the World Trade Center and Pentagon.
In her speech the other day, Rice made reference to them being aware of the terroristic threats, but she also said something to the effect that they were more focused on missles being used as weapons-that no one ever thought of jets being hi-jacked and used as missles.
I believe they were well aware of the imminent danger of terrorists attacking the U.S., but who would have imagined jets as missles!?
I was there when it happened, and if you would have told me (prior to 9/11) that jet airplanes were gonna knock down both towers, I would have thought, "Yeah, sure, pal..." But, now, in the wake of 9/11, I believe anything is possible. Then again, I am not one of the leaders of our gov't, and I certainly don't have (access to) all the information.
Ultimately, we will only know what they allow us to know.

Karay · Sergeant Joined: Mar 29, 2004 Posts: 98 Location: USA

Oh, so true. I'm not sure I'd want to know everything that goes on.... what little I know, gives me nightmares.

As for using planes as missles.... wasn't there a rather well-known author who wrote a book using this exact scenario, prior to 9-11? I can't remember who it was.....

K

NPonthehudson · Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:46 pm Post subject: lie detector test

I wonder if Edmonds would be willing to take a lie detector test...
Would CR?

...not sure her testimony is valid, since she was hired on September 13th, 2001, two days after the attack.
Could this just be hype?
This info has been out a week - where are the US reports?
The independent is now blocked.

Read this:
http://www.turks.us/article.php?story=20040402094039658

k027 · Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: lie detector test

NPonthehudson · Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:24 pm Post subject:

I'm sure it can be done...
...just don't tell the polygamous, deserting Dad's on Maury Povich! Laughing

BTW, how do they do it (pass, i.e. lie successfully)?
Are they sociopaths who can convince themselves that they are telling the truth?

Karay · Sergeant Joined: Mar 29, 2004 Posts: 98 Location: USA

Ali -- Have you ever watched CD when she speaks? Check out the body language..... I get a kick out of watching her head shake "yes" or "no" to her answers. Sometimes she says "yes" and her head nods "yes". Sometimes she says "yes" but her head shakes "no"...... Its a habit that is really difficult to break, no matter how much she tries.... and I tend to believe it more than I accept the validity of the words themselves.

Karay

Karay · Sergeant Joined: Mar 29, 2004 Posts: 98 Location: USA

NPonthehudson · Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 5:42 pm Post subject: Rut roh!

Read this:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s...ty_bush_dc

Karay · Sergeant Joined: Mar 29, 2004 Posts: 98 Location: USA

Ok, I read the article, and what struck me as typical was.... the article itself expressed bias by implying the document is fact, and/or what the document has been -said- to contain is fact.

Until the document is in the hands of the PUBLIC (not the press, or politicians), it will be subject to spin. The real question here is... will we be allowed to see it, or just be told what it supposedly contains?

Karay


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