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| Are you indeed happy with B9? |
| I'm completely happy with B9. Don't change a thing. |
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100% |
[ 1 ] |
| I'm not but have no thoughts as to possible improvements. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| I'm not but have bigger fish to fry at the moment. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 1 |
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| Author |
Message |
Ikeb
General
Premium Member
Joined: Apr 20, 2003
Posts: 3565
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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 Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 8:32 am Post subject: The derth of B9 suggestions |
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Is everyone happy with B9? It seems so. Don't you want to know why those graphics from your favourite web merchant aren't getting through? Of all the mail you get, which senders are the worst offenders in terms of questionable marketing practices?
Based on the lack of requests for improvements, I couldn't fault FireTrust for leaving well enough alone....... |
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TimeGhost
Captain
Joined: Apr 11, 2003
Posts: 650
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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There's still that unfulfilled request for the X button to minimize the GUI rather than close the program.
But to answer your questions: Yes (speaking for myself, anyway), No and No. |
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Wayward
Lieutenant
Premium Member
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
Posts: 299
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Close to the system tray option?
Yes, a very desirable add-on feature.
Other stuff?
I don't have a problem with the way Benign handles incoming mail. It might need some tweaks ... but I have no clue what to recommend.
_________________
Wayward |
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KayCee
Cadet
Joined: Aug 23, 2003
Posts: 7
Location: Hong_Kong
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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Can't find my renamed file attachments but haven't really had a good look yet.
I can find no fault with it and recommend it to everyone.
Worst offenders: my ISP, can't read a thing he sends me except the monthly bill!! They have no option to receive email in plain text.
KC |
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mcullet
Corporal
Joined: Oct 29, 2003
Posts: 65
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: The derth of B9 suggestions |
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| Ikeb wrote: |
Is everyone happy with B9? It seems so. Don't you want to know why those graphics from your favourite web merchant aren't getting through? Of all the mail you get, which senders are the worst offenders in terms of questionable marketing practices?
Based on the lack of requests for improvements, I couldn't fault FireTrust for leaving well enough alone....... |
Hi Ikeb,
I never purchased B9. Saw it on the Firetrust site but this quote on the first (?) praragraph made me squirm a bit: "Imagine being able to receive e-mail which is safe from viruses, worms, scripts, web bugs, privacy threats and other security risks, without affecting your e-mail." Ohhhh mumma - yes please!
To be honest the marketing pitch sounded like some of the spam I sometimes receive and it put me off.
I have:
WIN XP PRO & WIN 2K PRO and WIN Server 2003 Enterprise with:
1) A hardware firewall (Netcomm NB3100C) that has JAVA disabled.
2) ZoneAlarm Pro (latest) - great addition with the hardware firewall.
3) IMSecure Pro (latest - works with IM programs except ICQ ... odd to leave that out) - still evaluating it.
4) PestPatrol (latest) with Cookie Patrol and Memcheck turn on. Good - picks up most stuff but not perfect.
5) Start-Up Monitor and Startup Control Panel Applet (from M Line) which tell me if something is trying to play with my registry or startup files. My life saver - especially when I am tired.
6) Norton Anti-Virus Pro 2003 (soon to be 2004 Pro)
7) and of course MailWasher Pro (great product)
I update all security programs each day as a rule (some can't do this which is a pity).
And STILL stuff manages to get through. The absolute major cause for this is the human factor and (generally) not significant failure by any of these products.
Where possible all programs / products have password protection to at least make it a little more difficult for hackers (wankers) to stop stuffing my security up.
The human factor I refer to is my kids. All are computer literate but apparently brain dea - I wonder if this may be genetic? Oh well 
They turn some features off because:
1) They want to see something NOW.
2) They sometimes go to the very sites where you expect trouble (like warez or game sites or porn) and my security stops some things from working ... so of course they turn it off.
3) They don't (yet) share the consequences of their actions: formats / re-installs / bank account trouble / email addresses that get bogged down with spam etc. (This will change soon.) To them, email addresses are disposable - mine is not. They just don't grasp that an email address can be very important. They don't have a lot of money in a bank account to worry about someone nreaking into it (mine is not so hot but a credit card is good way to ruin my piggy bank.) They pirate software - this is so annoying. I am a developer (not the best either) so it really ticks me off that they do this so casually - and I am happy to pay for what I use. Then I realised that cracking games and software was more fun to them than the games themselves - not a psychologist but this may be worth a study or two for game / software developers to improve their anti-piracy approaches.
4) They spend FAR too much time on instant messenging friends they see at school and despite my best efforts, they think the 'people' they meet are real - warnings about paedaphiles etc are not taken seriously apparently (I'm old and they know everything). They know I know how to get into a person's PC using instant messenging (whole sites give 'how to' instructions on this) but rather than take this as a warning they want to know how to do it. (BTW: I do not do it at all - clients want their security systems checked so this is the ONLY context for this stuff that is valid for me.)
5) Kids have memories of mice - they disable certain features but then do not turn them back once they are finished 'playing'. (They remember when their pocket money is due without fail ... odd thing about selective memory.)
I know that a central part of this problem is me - if I kept passwords to myself then the kids would not be able to disable them. And to an extent this is true. But my kids grew up with PC's - they know how to disable security without resorting to passwords.
So ... getting back to B9. I might take a look at it soon to see if it adds value given the environment I described but I am not sure if it is worth it (may be an excellent program) given that I am fast reaching a point of diminishing marginal return on security.
Kids are more risk taking than adults (generally) - I am referring to adolescents mainly - younger kids (under  are less likely to be interested in the same things that adolescents see as fun (but perhaps this is my naivity or perhaps a feature of my fmiliy or perhaps a different culture - Australia).
Spammers and web masters are getting very clever and, in my humble opinion, generally in front of the counter measures we take. SWEN initially sliced through all the security stuff I had with ease, for example. And these folk (spammers / hackers etc) use good psychology - they know the risk taking behaviour of kids (and adult males??) and exploit it. It must work for them because, from what I can see, they seem to nail this well.
Like a lot of people I am fast losing patience with microsoft for having so many means by which their operating systems and products can be so easily exploited ... but I have not yet made the leap to Linux. One day perhaps - my work depends on windows because this is still what most people use.
But my biggest gripe lies with my ISP. They make money by the bandwidth we use - they have very little commercial interest in doing anything to stop spammers because this traffic earns them money too. Despite what they say, they could filter spam (and at least some viruses) before we see it but they don't bother.
One exception I have found is ODDPOST - a subscription based non-microsoft email client. This is an excellent service - spam is accidental not the norm. And because it is not a microsoft mail client, it appears (so far) almost immune to auto infections. Like all things I guess this will change when spammers etc turn their eyes towards it but it is excellent.
A simple question - raises really complex but very good issues.
OK - I'm off my soap box
Mike
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Ikeb
General
Premium Member
Joined: Apr 20, 2003
Posts: 3565
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:54 am Post subject: Re: The derth of B9 suggestions |
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| mcullet wrote: |
OK - I'm off my soap box
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Wow!!  Never thought my poll would solicit such a soul-searching post! ... And from someone who hasn't even tried B9. 
Anyway, I'm not sure I see the connection between your comments and the features offerd by B9. You refer to SPAMers for example. B9 has nothing to do with SPAM; rather it deals with mail I do accept but which may have "questionable" links, graphics, etc. B9 parses the marketing crap out (i.e. spyware type stuff). I'm just not sure what is filtered since FireStorm doesn't document that very well. Nor do they let me easily find out how any particular email has been sanitized. Stuff like that. But no other user seems to be concerned so I guess B9 will stay as it is.....
_________________
I like SPAM ... on my sandwich!
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mcullet
Corporal
Joined: Oct 29, 2003
Posts: 65
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 3:39 am Post subject: Re: The derth of B9 suggestions |
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| Ikeb wrote: |
| mcullet wrote: |
OK - I'm off my soap box
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Wow!! Never thought my poll would solicit such a soul-searching post! ... And from someone who hasn't even tried B9.
Anyway, I'm not sure I see the connection between your comments and the features offerd by B9. You refer to SPAMers for example. B9 has nothing to do with SPAM; rather it deals with mail I do accept but which may have "questionable" links, graphics, etc. B9 parses the marketing crap out (i.e. spyware type stuff). I'm just not sure what is filtered since FireStorm doesn't document that very well. Nor do they let me easily find out how any particular email has been sanitized. Stuff like that. But no other user seems to be concerned so I guess B9 will stay as it is.....
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Aww c'mon Ikeb - be gentle with me
You make an excellent point about me making comments about a product Ihave not even tried - so I have downloaded it and will give it a go.
But have you actually read the site on Firetrust relating to B9? They say: 'A recent study showed that up to 83% of spam e-mail contains these web bug tracking codes, and as soon as these e-mail were read, more spam started flowing. Benign can ensure your privacy, by removing both known and probable web bugs.'
My post (waaay to long) made three major points. Firstly, despite my security measures I still get hit. Secondly, spammers and hackers etc appear to be a step in front of counter measures. And thirdly, the human factor is really the weakest aspect of any security measure.
We don't know each other or our experiences which is OK. And I will not even pretend to be any guru or apprentice guru. However, I have done a little homework over the years
Right now I am finalising a major web-based project and i am still scared witless at how easy it is for people to break into the site no matter what i do with security measures. The best I have been able to do (apart from all the obvious stuff) is design my own custom encryption algorithm to make it at least a little harder for these creeps to do damage.
And spam is just one point of entry into our PC. Simple browsing is risky now. If you have ZoneAlarm Pro 4 - take a look at what the 'per site' security settings are after you visit a respectable website. Even if you have told IE6 to reject all cookies and disabled JAVA - somehow these settings on ZPRO are changed. Thanks, you reminded me to whine to Zonelabs about this ...
I was not trying to offend anyone with my post so I do hope I did not insult you in any way. I was simply trying to add an alternate point of view.
And now for the embarrassing truth - I landed on this forum by accident, wrote what i did but when I realised my mistake I hit the wrong key and instead of killing it - posted it.
To be honest, you were overly gentle - just ask my friends. They line up to take a swing at me
Keep well.
Mike
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Wayward
Lieutenant
Premium Member
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
Posts: 299
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:55 am Post subject: Re: The derth of B9 suggestions |
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| mcullet wrote: |
| To be honest, you were overly gentle - just ask my friends. They line up to take a swing at me :)Mike |
With friends like that, looks like you might need a gentle stranger or two. 
_________________
Wayward
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Ikeb
General
Premium Member
Joined: Apr 20, 2003
Posts: 3565
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 10:20 am Post subject: Re: The derth of B9 suggestions |
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| mcullet wrote: |
| Aww c'mon Ikeb - be gentle with me |
Sorry, didn't mean to be mean.
| mcullet wrote: |
| You make an excellent point about me making comments about a product Ihave not even tried - so I have downloaded it and will give it a go. |
Great! let us know what you think of it.
| mcullet wrote: |
| But have you actually read the site on Firetrust relating to B9? They say: 'A recent study showed that up to 83% of spam e-mail contains these web bug tracking codes, and as soon as these e-mail were read, more spam started flowing. Benign can ensure your privacy, by removing both known and probable web bugs.' |
Quite a while ago, if the text was there when I was considering B9. Yeah, that pretty much says what I just said except I don't consider any email I accept to be SPAM. In fact I know for a fact that I asked for these newsletters etc. I just don't want the junk they include in those same emails.
| mcullet wrote: |
| My post (waaay to long) made three major points. Firstly, despite my security measures I still get hit. Secondly, spammers and hackers etc appear to be a step in front of counter measures. And thirdly, the human factor is really the weakest aspect of any security measure. |
Granted B9 is another safeguard for any SPAM that may slip through MWP, but that happens infrequently now. 
| mcullet wrote: |
| I was not trying to offend anyone with my post so I do hope I did not insult you in any way. I was simply trying to add an alternate point of view. |
I'm certainly not offended in any way. Alternative points of view are welcome. Of course you should expect those views might be challenged.
_________________
I like SPAM ... on my sandwich!
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TimeGhost
Captain
Joined: Apr 11, 2003
Posts: 650
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: The derth of B9 suggestions |
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| mcullet wrote: |
| My post (waaay to long) made three major points. Firstly, despite my security measures I still get hit. Secondly, spammers and hackers etc appear to be a step in front of counter measures. And thirdly, the human factor is really the weakest aspect of any security measure. |
It would help protect you from web bugs, something you're probably not protected from now. And it would prevent the next vbs virus from getting at you, provided that you don't rename the attachment back to vbs and run it. But my advice would be to password protect the box from your kids. Period. If they need to do homework, send them to the library or have them do it in school.
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Perry
Lieutenant
Joined: Oct 19, 2003
Posts: 291
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: The derth of B9 suggestions |
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| TimeGhost wrote: |
| mcullet wrote: |
| My post (waaay to long) made three major points. Firstly, despite my security measures I still get hit. Secondly, spammers and hackers etc appear to be a step in front of counter measures. And thirdly, the human factor is really the weakest aspect of any security measure. |
You do not really have security measures, merely the pretense of them. I think you know that. And if you allow your box to be exploited to the extent that it spreads worms and spam, you are being inconsiderate of other Internet users. More than inconsiderate, actually. Negligent. You are responsible both for the actions of your kids and for the computer. Please don't shirk that resposibility.
Getting back to B9.... It would help protect you from web bugs, something you're probably not protected from now. And it would prevent the next vbs virus from getting at you, provided that you don't rename the attachment back to vbs and run it. But my advice would be to password protect the box from your kids. Period. If they need to do homework, send them to the library or have them do it in school.
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I believe the first thing that needs to be addressed by this user is to use the security he actually has available, and the first is to not allow the users the rights to turn certain features off such things as firewalls and antivirus programs. Most of these have the ability of limiting such actions. This of course means that one really should set up the first line of defense and that is to have separate logons for the administrator and the users, it appears not the be the case above.
That said, one thing that should be considered about B9 is its inclusion into the price structure, if not directly into MWP. Some of the competition has html stripping features in their anti spam products at prices in the same area of MWP alone. One is even free and works fairly well.
Perry
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mcullet
Corporal
Joined: Oct 29, 2003
Posts: 65
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:40 am Post subject: Re: The derth of B9 suggestions |
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Hi TimeGhost,
I like your style. Subtle and yet to the point.
No respect intended
Of course I have security measures. I was dicussing how easily such measures can be by passed. I do commercial IT work - some of this relates to security. And guess what dude - people get past the best systems. Your phrase about '...about merely having a pretense of security measures ' (my paraphrase) demonstrates a degree of dullness not insight. Do you really think I would post every single security measure I have here or anywhere? Good grief.
Heaps of people got hit by SWEN - or get hit by other things every single day. I did not write the OS - I use it like the majority of other PC users. Linux is not bullet proof - and neither it seems is Microsoft's own servers.
I openly acknowledged Ikeb was quite correct when he told me to look at B9 before really making a comment about it - he was right to make this comment. And I am happily evaluating it even as I type.
Mike |
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mcullet
Corporal
Joined: Oct 29, 2003
Posts: 65
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 10:23 am Post subject: Re: The derth of B9 suggestions |
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| Perry wrote: |
I believe the first thing that needs to be addressed by this user is to use the security he actually has available, and the first is to not allow the users the rights to turn certain features off such things as firewalls and antivirus programs. Most of these have the ability of limiting such actions. This of course means that one really should set up the first line of defense and that is to have separate logons for the administrator and the users, it appears not the be the case above.
That said, one thing that should be considered about B9 is its inclusion into the price structure, if not directly into MWP. Some of the competition has html stripping features in their anti spam products at prices in the same area of MWP alone. One is even free and works fairly well.
Perry |
Hi Perry,
Thanks for the comments.
What you said, in general terms, is absolutely reasonable. I assure you that I do enable all security measures - and then some. My kids are 15+ years old. All of them grew up with PCs - sitting on my lap as I worked. All of them can do almost everything there is to be done on a PC from building one to installing and configuring different operating systems and security systems and writing software.
I taught them. The original idea was to help them become more secure / more proficient and more likely to be employed. They know how to bypass secured operating systems - a lot of techos do as well BTW. They possess very high level knowledge so, the example, was poor - this is generally not the case in most families (I think?).
A consequence of knowledge though is that it can be misused. While I am sure my kids are not hackers (well, as sure as any parent can be of anything their kids do , hackers are often young talented people who do nasty things.
But my 'kids' aside, what I described occurs in many business and government departments - simple things like passwords for example, are often given to co-workers. I know this is a simple example - I have come across some really nasty ones along the way too - as perhaps many on the forum have as well. And I have also seen employers misuse monitoring tools on work PCs. But that is a whole other topic - not one for here.
BTW - B9 seems to be really good. I am glad that Ikeb pointed my nose at it. If it is stable in my working system then to me it is well worth the money.
I also think your suggestion about including B9 into say, MWP, is a good idea. My initial impression is that they seem to work really well together - it would be a good combined product. I'd like to support Firetrust - best way, apart from helping them with feedback, is to educate others of our positive experience. I certainly need them.
Keep well, and thanks for the comments.
Mike
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Perry
Lieutenant
Joined: Oct 19, 2003
Posts: 291
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: The derth of B9 suggestions |
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| Quote: |
Hi Perry,
Thanks for the comments.
What you said, in general terms, is absolutely reasonable. I assure you that I do enable all security measures - and then some. My kids are 15+ years old. All of them grew up with PCs - sitting on my lap as I worked. All of them can do almost everything there is to be done on a PC from building one to installing and configuring different operating systems and security systems and writing software.
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I mention this since it seems that the kids have access to the administrators logon, or have administrator access. Their are holes in the home version that you can more closely control in the pro version, but in any case the home version does allow the administrator to control access down to the file level for all user profiles.
| Quote: |
BTW - B9 seems to be really good. I am glad that Ikeb pointed my nose at it. If it is stable in my working system then to me it is well worth the money.
I also think your suggestion about including B9 into say, MWP, is a good idea. My initial impression is that they seem to work really well together - it would be a good combined product. I'd like to support Firetrust - best way, apart from helping them with feedback, is to educate others of our positive experience. I certainly need them.
Keep well, and thanks for the comments.
Mike |
Two things about B9 that come to mind for me. For about 60% of the cost of the MWP/B9 combo, there are others that work well with similar features embedded into the core program.
Second B9 has one of the poorest interfaces I have seen for these types of programs, it needs to be cleaned up and it needs to look more like part of the family of products. Its installation process pretty much stinks as well, for example when it encounters a locked host file it doesn't make provisions for unlocking it. I had to reinstall this critter three times to get it to work. The first time I ran into the locked host file. The second time it failed to completely install, possibly from parts left over from the first try. The third time after doing a manual uninstall, it functioned.
It has one iterm I did like and that was not hijacking the localhost setting in the host file, something used by nearly everyone.
Perry[/quote]
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mcullet
Corporal
Joined: Oct 29, 2003
Posts: 65
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:55 pm Post subject: Re: The derth of B9 suggestions |
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[quote="Perry"]I mention this since it seems that the kids have access to the administrators logon, or have administrator access. Their are holes in the home version that you can more closely control in the pro version, but in any case the home version does allow the administrator to control access down to the file level for all user profiles.
| Quote: |
Hi again Perry,
Oh dear - where to begin. When I mentioned I taught them - I mean to REALLY taught them well (too well it seems). All my operating systems that do have some security (WIN2K PRO and XP PRO) are well known to them. Not certain it is such a good idea here to say how to bypass ADMIN settings to I won't - but this is possible. Others may not be aware of some 'hidden' users in both of these OS's too and they can have their policies edited.
So far neither they nor me know a great deal about WIN Server 2003 Enterprise so this one is safe for now.
I have noticed a few web sites that talk about bypassing or altering Pro settings and will not mention them nor the search criteria either.
I hope my situation (my kids knowedge) is unusual. The practice of bypassing stronger security measures though is really comon in many businesses. The example I gave about people 'sharing' admin passwords is quite common. The reasons are commmon too - they just want to get something done and don't have time to wait for IT support to help (if this exists) or they 'think' they know what they are doing. You know the old saying ... a little knowledge etc.
On many business sites, I still see the administrator password either not set (OEM default often) or set to a common word known to all. I get a lot of call backs after having set up fairly good security to find the owner altered things so they did not need to call IT support (either me - or others) to save money. One person in particular, disabled things to visit dangerous (in IT terms specifically) porn sites after hours. The sites contained code / scripts etc that attacked his limited security and caused damage. And one disgruntled person open the door on every security measure (plus some) just before they left because they were angry with their employer. (More common than some might realise.) Again - the human factor.
[quote="Perry"]Two things about B9 that come to mind for me. For about 60% of the cost of the MWP/B9 combo, there are others that work well with similar features embedded into the core program. |
I am still evaluating B9 so all I can say is - still looking. Can you elaborate of this because this sounds important.
For example, my hardware firewall strips JAVA and cookies before the packets get through to the LAN. PestPatrol / ZoneAlarm do some other features - like renaming suspicuos attachments, 'stopping' web bugs and pop-ups. But to my knowledge, none deal with some perl scripts or other embedded scripts (won't list what types here).
When SWEN first arrived, one of its tricks was an embedded image / music / vido file that did not appear as an attachment - shot straight past the then latest update of NAV PRO 2003 and went to town. It specifically tagetted NAV, ZAPRO and a list of other 'security' measures. I found it because of my familiarity with my system - don't want to say exactly how though because others might use this knowledge.
I don't know enough, I know, about how some hackers do what they do - and while it is cold comfort, I am in good company it seems - MWP, Norton, Ad-Aware Pro and ZAPRO (and a few others). Some fixed this of course ... after the event ... as did, say Microsoft after whatever the latest worm that went around. But I was blown away to see that my ISP was uninterested in doing anything at all to prevent SWEN from hitting their cable subscribers. And their 'latest' update suggested SWEN appeared around the beginning of November - what the ..?
So - can you point me at the 'others' that you refer too. I take it they are products or tehniques. I'd like to look at them too, if possible.
Thanks for the comments,
Mike
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