The Cowardly Spanish

Jamming · Colonel Premium Member Joined: Jun 22, 2002 Posts: 1874

Looks like all you have to do is blow up one bomb and the Spanish cave-in faster than the French against the Germans. When will you stupid Europeans learn that, if you give in to evil you only encourage it more. You can see us as the problem but when have we blown up one of your trains, planes, or killed one of your citizens. I have to laugh at you, because if I don't I would cry over all the lives we wasted in your defense.

For stupid complainers (this is my opinion and not the opinion of ComputerCops). BTW Just so you know I just got word that a friend who lived in Iraq that disappeared six years ago, was killed by Saddam's Regime, his crime was writing a letter to a childhood friend in America announcing his son's birth. Think about that.

seasalt · Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:29 pm Post subject:

Evening Jamming,

My family has had experience with people who made Hussein look like Mr. Rodgers. Over 10 million people were starved, killed, tortured etc. Ever hear of what Stalin did to the Ukraine? Guess what, the USA, England etc knew it was happening and did nothing. The folks back in the old country didn't have to do so much as send a letter, being Ukrainian was reason enough.

The people of Spain are living in a country where, when an election is held, they have the freedom to give the boot to the Government in power if they so choose. From what I gather, the majority of Spain's electorate did not approve of the former Governments role in Iraq to begin with. The bombing was of course a reason for how the election turned out, but considering everything, it's not suprising to me.

I don't think it's fair to throw all Spanish people into one basket, I've known people from almost every country on earth, and from my own experiences Spain, like any country has good and bad folks, varied opinions etc.

Very sorry to hear of the loss of your friend.

We do indeed live in a world filled with hate. That's why it's so important to look for the good in people, no matter where they are from.

seasalt · Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:29 pm Post subject:

Evening Jamming,

My family has had experience with people who made Hussein look like Mr. Rodgers. Over 10 million people were starved, killed, tortured etc. Ever hear of what Stalin did to the Ukraine? Guess what, the USA, England etc knew it was happening and did nothing. The folks back in the old country didn't have to do so much as send a letter, being Ukrainian was reason enough.

The people of Spain are living in a country where, when an election is held, they have the freedom to give the boot to the Government in power if they so choose. From what I gather, the majority of Spain's electorate did not approve of the former Governments role in Iraq to begin with. The bombing was of course a reason for how the election turned out, but considering everything, it's not suprising to me.

I don't think it's fair to throw all Spanish people into one basket, I've known people from almost every country on earth, and from my own experiences Spain, like any country has good and bad folks, varied opinions etc.

Very sorry to hear of the loss of your friend.

We do indeed live in a world filled with hate. That's why it's so important to look for the good in people, no matter where they are from.

spy1 · Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:22 pm Post subject:

http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=16608

http://www.counterpunch.org/

Perhaps they were just tired of being manipulated. Pete

seasalt · Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:25 pm Post subject:

spy1

Thanks for posting the links. I agree with the articles 100%.

seasalt · Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:22 pm Post subject:

Here's a link to a US Gov site. Can you see any hypocracy after spending some time reading the various articles regarding the "Human Rights" of other nations?

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2003/index.htm

TMOV Wrote

"THE SPANIARDS WILL SEE SOON WHAT THE COST IS FOR THEIR COWARDLY BEHAVIOR.
THE WILL PROBABLY LOSE MORE BY BOMBINGS.

EVEN WHERE I LIVE OUT IN THE COUNTRY TOWN IN OREGON THERE IS A CONCERN BECAUSE WE ARE NOT EXACTLY AN IMPORTANT TARGET AND THAT COULD BE REASON ENOUGH TO BE A TARGET."

TMOV

I don't have a crystal ball, so I can't say if Spain will be bombed again. Let's hope not, I for one don't want to see any more blood spilled.
Regarding your statement that Spanish People are cowards, I disagree. That's nothing more than lumping an entire race together because you disagree with the stance of the new Government Elect.

As for the U.S. I suspect that it will be hit again, perhaps not with a bomb this time. I hope not, but we live in an extreemly violent world, always have.

One thing that happened recently that makes me wonder how soon before something happens in the U.S. is the recent sale of the Sears Tower in Chicago. Remember the strange things that took place at the World Trade Center before the towers imploded? Do some research it may open your eyes.

No one knows what's going to happen, and that's how easy it is to control people. Order out of Chaos. If people are living in fear and uncertainty they are more likely to allow more and more of there freedoms to be taken away. Have you seen signs of this in the recent past?

Jamming · Colonel Premium Member Joined: Jun 22, 2002 Posts: 1874

Iraqis Drag 4 U.S. Bodies Through Streets

This is what the Spanish votes support by withdrawing their troops, they encourage it and signed off on it with their ballots.

This is what spy1 supports with his anti-American rhetoric, with his so called manipulation, this is why John Kerry has to be defeated in the next election, because the terrorists and Sadammites must be defeated once and for all.

spy1 · Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 1:00 am Post subject:

Nice try, jamming - I'm sure it hasn't occurred to you that if our troops hadn't been there to start with, they'd have never been available to be killed and dragged through the streets to begin with?

Or that, right now across the U.S., families of the 500+ service men and women who have been killed already wouldn't be having anything to mourn about?

How many more deaths of United States soldiers are you willing to accept, jamming?

A LOT, I'd bet, as long as none of them are related to YOU - and it's a flat CERTAINTY that YOU don't have to worry about being sent over there, isn't it? So, it's not YOUR neck on the line, either, now is it?

Although your mouth works quite well when it comes to agreeing to sign OTHER people's death warrants.

The whole entire population of Iraq isn't worth the loss of one single American life.

The "bragging rights" of this administration are greased with the blood of our children - and all for a country and a people who aren't worth a single drop of it.

And THAT is what YOU support. Pete

Jamming · Colonel Premium Member Joined: Jun 22, 2002 Posts: 1874

You hypocrite, my girlfriend just return from a deployment over there with the Enterprise Battle group in February. There was not a day I didn't worry about her, while you are playing with lives here. Yes, Iraq is worth American lives now. For if it wasn't a time of our choosing it would of been a time of Saddam's choosing.

I dare you to put up your 201 File or DD213 Service Record that you claim, because I don't believe someone like you could see combat an survive, as you say. Unless it was because you were always "tail end charlie" when the fighting started.

I served my time over there when it was my job and time to do so. I also picked up the remains of American Marines and placed them reverently in body bags, so don't tell me what I am willing to accept or not. I put my best friend in a body bag and sealed it up. While you anti-American Democrats are putting your politics above the safety of troops now engaged in a combat zone, encouraging the enemies of this country to continue to kill them. Your so called protests, provide aid and comfort to the enemies of America, there was a time for questioning, now it is time to support the troops till they all come home.

If we had more Americans' like you in WW2, we would all be speaking reverently of Nazi Germany or we would be Lampshades. If we had American's like you during the cold war, we would be living in Stalinist Ukraine like countries. (but I bet you wouldn't of minded being under a Stalinist Government, after all they share the ideals of the Democratic Party: Socialism)

spy1 · Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:49 am Post subject:

Ah - now I've figured it out - you feel guilty for the manner and fact of their deaths because of your constant "bang the war drum" stance.

You realize that without your (and others like you) support for the "war", either active or tacit, all the Americans killed subsequent to 911 would still be alive.

Naturally, you're not going to accept the responsibility for their deaths - so you have to try to blame someone else for it (you'd make a great politician).

Their blood's not on my hands, jamming - had I had it my way, not a single American soldier would have stepped foot on that soil.

The same result (without nearly the American bloodshed) could have been easily accomplished by carrier airstrikes, heavy and stealth bomber raids and cruise missile attacks. Complete destruction of their infrastructure would have been just as effective, followed by us simply sailing/flying off into the sunset and leaving them to clean up their own mess - or to be devoured by their neighboring Muslim "brethern".

So keep watching America's youth being killed and their bodies being defiled on the 6 o'clock news, jamming - and keep deluding yourself that " the terrorists and Sadammites must be defeated once and for all." (like that's possible or even likely, given the nature of the enemy).

And keep ignoring the issue of the Reserve troops that lose their homes due to extended tours of duty and the fact that they can't keep their bills paid, making survival of their tour of duty only ONE of the things they have to "survive" because of this administration's mistakes. (I'm sure you'll rejoice when the draft is re-instated when bush gets re-elected - lots more cannon-fodder for the machine).

Don't ask your self why we feel it necessary to "rebuild" Iraq (with "grants" no, less - not "loans"), either (since they're an oil-producing country who can quite well afford to re-build themselves) using American taxpayer dollars - you might not like the answer.

<g> And as to my service experience? USN, '69 - '74. By the time I finished boot camp and Class "A" Electrical schooling (after having joined up straight out of h.s. at age 17), everything Vietnam-wise was already wrapping up. (Repeated requests for patrol river boat duty and/or a cross-service transfer so I could get in on some kind of action were met with denial, then extreme irritation). After '74, since they apparently didn't want to use me for anything useful, I took my discharge and went home. (Although I must admit, I had an absolute ball in the service!). You don't deserve anything else - not to mention the fact that it would be sheer lunacy to put up a government document online (it's probably illegal, don't 'cha know).

That about wraps it up for me, jamming - hope you continue to sleep well at night - I know I will! Pete

Jamming · Colonel Premium Member Joined: Jun 22, 2002 Posts: 1874

Piffle, you cannot win a war without troops on the ground as well. All you do is blow up things and kill more civilians. I don't feel guilty about those losses, as I didn't pull the trigger. You have a warped view of cause and effect, bad people shoot our troops and it is our fault because they were there to be shot at. By applying your logic any criminal activity is the fault of the victim. Lets go back to blaming women for being raped is the message of that logic.

TMOV · Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:32 pm Post subject:

spy1 · Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:08 pm Post subject:

spy1 · Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:12 pm Post subject:

seasalt · Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:39 pm Post subject:

TMOV Wrote

"i'me so glad that you are well informed about the civilians that were killed and brutally dragged thru the streets and hung from a bridge.
our kids are worth every bit of sacrifice to ensure their future peace and tranquility."

TMOV,

It appears that you aren't very well informed. The "civilians" you speak of were not civilians in the true meaning of the word.

The U.S. are using Mercs and that is what these "civilians" were. Also, they are paid much better than the typical ignorant grunt who's average knowledge of geopolitics is what they hear on CNN, FOX, MSNBC. I use the word "ignorant" in the context that the average grunt is not trained to think, but to do as ordered & trained to do.
Here's a link to the "civilians" you spoke of.

http://www.blackwaterusa.com/

The huge majority of the worlds nations did not approve of the illegal invasion of Iraq, under international law it was illegal.

But of course the law doesn't apply since one of the worlds most criminal, corrupt, morally bankrupt, self serving nations in the enitre history of mankind has the military reqiurements needed to project their will anywhere on earth. At least for the time being, but mark my words, the deeds of the U.S. can only escalate the hatred towards your country, not only in the middle east, but in every corner of the world.

Could you tell me what the invasion of Iraq has done to make the world a safer place? Just use the facts that you personally know and can back up with evidence.

I hope you realize, I respect your right to your opinions and wish only the best for you and your fellow countrymen.

History can't be erased, so why do so many of you seem so blindly willing to follow the same path that led to the downfall of countless nations past.

Here are a few quotes I think fit this topic.

"COWARDICE, n. A charge often levelled by all-American types against those who stand up for their beliefs by refusing to fight in wars they find unconscionable, and who willingly go to prison or into exile in order to avoid violating their own consciences. These 'cowards' are to be contrasted with red-blooded, 'patriotic' youths who literally bend over, grab their ankles, submit to the government, fight in wars they do not understand (or disapprove of), and blindly obey orders to maim and to kill simply because they are ordered to do so-all to the howling approval of the all-American mob. This type of behavior is commonly termed 'courageous.'" : Chaz Bufe

It is foolish in the extreme not only to resort to force before necessity compels, but especially to madly create the conditions that will lead to this necessity." Benjamin Tucker, Liberty, May 22, 1886

"War paralyzes your courage and deadens the spirit of true manhood. It degrades and stupefies with the sense that you are not responsible, that 'tis not yours to think and reason why, but to do and die,' like the hundred thousand others doomed like yourself. War means blind obedience, unthinking stupidity, brutish callousness, wanton destruction, and irresponsible murder." Alexander Berkman

"It is part of the general pattern of misguided policy that our country is now geared to an arms economy which was bred in an artificually induced psychosis of war hysteria and nurtured upon an incessant propaganda of fear."
-General Douglas MacArthur, Speech, May 15, 1951

"Throughout history it has been the inaction of those who could have acted, the indifference of those who should have known better, the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most, that has made it possible for evil to triumph." Haile Selassie, Emperor of Ethiopia

"All wars are follies, very expensive and very mischievous ones. In my opinion, there never was a good war or a bad peace. When will mankind be convinced and agree to settle their difficulties by arbitration?" Benjamin Franklin

"What a cruel thing is war: to separate and destroy families and friends, and mar the purest joys and happiness God has granted us in this world; to fill our hearts with hatred instead of love for our neighbors, and to devastate the fair face of this beautiful world" Robert E. Lee, letter to his wife, 1864

"If we let people see that kind of thing, there would never again be any war: Pentagon official explaining why the U.S. military censored graphic footage from the Gulf War"

"Money, not morality, is the principle commerce of civilized nations." Thomas Jefferson

"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." John F. Kennedy

"Under the influence of politicians, masses of people tend to ascribe the responsibility for wars to those who wield power at any given time. In World War I it was the munitions industrialists; in World War II it was the psychopathic generals who were said to be guilty. This is passing the buck.

The responsibility for wars falls solely upon the shoulders of these same masses of people, for they have all the necessary means to avert war in their own hands. In part by their apathy, in part by their passivity, and in part actively, these same masses of people make possible the catastrophes under which they themselves suffer more than anyone else. To stress this guilt on the part of the masses of people, to hold them solely responsible, means to take them seriously. On the other hand, to commiserate masses of people as victims, means to treat them as small, helpless children. The former is the attitude held by genuine freedom fighters; the latter that attitude held by power-thirsty politicians." Wilhelm Reich, The Mass Psychology of Fascism

"It seems that 'we have never gone to war for conquest, for exploitation, nor for territory'; we have the word of a president [McKinley] for that. Observe, now, how Providence overrules the intentions of the truly good for their advantage. We went to war with Mexico for peace, humanity and honor, yet emerged from the contest with an extension of territory beyond the dreams of political avarice. We went to war with Spain for relief of an oppressed people [the Cubans], and at the close found ourselves in possession of vast and rich insular dependencies [primarily the Philippines] and with a pretty tight grasp upon the country for relief of whose oppressed people we took up arms. We could hardly have profited more had 'territorial aggrandizement' been the spirit of our purpose and heart of our hope. The slightest acquaintance with history shows that powerful republics are the most warlike and unscrupulous of nations." Ambrose Bierce, Warlike America

Repectfully

seasalt


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