Straight from God #2

SicPreFix · Sergeant Joined: Feb 21, 2004 Posts: 121 Location: Canada

More fun for the credulous.

"It's reported that in Perth, Australia, a statue of the Virgin Mary that has been drawing crowds since 2002 when it apparently began weeping rose-scented tears, has started crying again. Wow. The owner said that she bought the statue ten years ago in Bangkok, and that it started shedding aromatic tears again on Palm Sunday. She said she was "surprised" at this. You see, the "graven image" had been crying before, but she just had no idea why it had started up again. Really!

"However, when a chemical analysis of the "tears" was ordered by the local Archbishop, she was ordered to take the figure home. The tests found that Mary was crying a mixture of vegetable oil and rose oil. Wisely, the archbishop declared that a case for a miraculous happening had not definitely been proved. In the background, I'm sure, could be heard a weeping and wailing and gnashing of dentures.

"But don't think that this exposure of the scam dampened the zeal of the blindly faithful, one bit. Thousands of people continue to push one another aside to see the statue. The owner has built a shrine to hold the plaster saint, which is now on display four days a week at her home. Doubtless, contributions are being accepted to purchase fresh Mazola and rose oil. You can't expect Mary to go out to the local supermarket and buy it herself.

"And isn't it a bit bizarre that it was an off-the-street product made in Bangkok that manifested this miracle? Thailand's populace of some 51 million are very predominantly Buddhist, with minorities of Muslim, Hindu, Christian, and Sikh persuasion. The religious idols of Christ, Mary, St. Christopher, and other saints that are sold at our local emporium of sacred stuff here in Florida, are made mostly in China and in Thailand, as witness this "Made In China" item that we keep on hand at the JREF to weep oil or blood your choice for TV interviewers. A bargain at $32.99.

"Reminds me of the old story: An evangelist was going at it hot and heavy, telling those gathered about what could lay in store for them. "God's wrath will devour you." he bellowed. "There will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth."

"I don't have any teeth." said one old man.

"Teeth will be provided." replied the evangelist, confidently.

Of course!

ekrubtap · Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:54 am Post subject:

Yes well, the christians will be the first to tell you that this is not "their" christianity. This is someone else's christianity. With a gazillion separate contentious sects, I wonder at christian claims of being the largest religion. They are not one religion. They are a multitude of religions with separate beliefs, each, as with all religions, believing they are THE one. God's chosen.

'scuse me while I guffaw.

chickengirl · Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 12:48 pm Post subject:

Looks like idol worship to me. And as far as saying this is not "my religion," or whatever...Nope it's not...There are a lot of atheistic crackpots...would you separate yourself from them? Are they "one of you?" Other than being of the human race?
I cannot be responsible for how my brothers and sisters worship...It's a one on One relationship....when I stand before God, I will not be able to drag anyone along and say "Well they did it!"...for the good or the bad....there will be no "they" present...there will be no "ya, buts"...no excuses...just the naked truth.

ekrubtap · Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:09 pm Post subject:

Atheist crackpots??? what???
I'll have to get back to you on that one.
Unbelievable.

chickengirl · Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:24 pm Post subject:

Well hrmph!!! Razz

Sorry I lost my head....but you have to admit there are a lot of cracked people out there, no matter what their labels...some are just plain silly, some annoying, and some loathsome...

and while some of you in this forum, (I will not name names Rolling Eyes

)would take pot-shots at the more gullible, and hold them up for ridicule,...I bet you those that love God, look on these poor people with compassion...I dare not make fun of anyone..."But for the Grace of God, there go I"...not to mention "Blessed are the poor"...Maybe if you guys could look on the hearts of people, you wouldn't be so critical, and maybe you aren't really critical, but just having fun...
It is a very jaded world we live in...You don't have a clue what is in my heart for you...you would be shocked I am sure. I know there are many Christians that feel this love for their brothers, sisters, and neighbors of all the world...I can't say much about other faiths, because honestly, I live a very isolated life, and only know Christians, Jehovahs Witnesses, and Mormons and a handful of Wiccans...I don't give a hoot what they choose to believe. We are both aware of each others beliefs; we meet; and have our exchanges; they are precious, and I love them. I don't judge them. My job is just to love them. I take my job seriously.
And you know...the "fundies" that waggle their fingers in the faces of people...telling those that don't believe as they do, "you're going to hell"...are not really too different from the "un-be's" that waggle their fingers in believers faces, telling them "you're stupid"....of course said in more sophisticated words. Rolling Eyes

"What the world need now...is love, sweet love...no not just for some, but for everyone..." Wink

Guess what?
Ain't gonna happen.
We are just not willing to put the pride aside..."Oh what a world...what a world"

ekrubtap · Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 6:25 pm Post subject:

You are right.
I was raised in a more than averagely religious environment. (nothing abusive by any stretch) and when I gave it up in my early teens it remained somewhat of an atheistic hobby throughout life.
I do tend to get a little too passionate sometimes.
My big fat Irish ego.
Down, boy, down.
(see, who needs a confessional?)
dang.
Down boy, down.

chickengirl · Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:00 pm Post subject:

MrsHoppes · Sergeant Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 122 Location: USA

Gotta love idol worship. (NOT!)

ekrubtap · Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 1:14 pm Post subject: Jesus's Last Words

This brings up the question of what actually were Jesus's last words? who are we to believe, John, Mark (Matthew), or Luke?
All four gospels claim to have recorded Jesus's last words just before he allegedly passed away on the cross. You would think, that in the interests of veracity they would all report the same dialogue. Not so.....

* "It is finished." (John 19:30)
* "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me!" (Mark 15:34-5 and Matthew 27:46)
* "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit." (Luke 23:46)

Somewhat contradictory, wouldn't you say? And I believe the reason for the contradiction is that the whole crucifixion scenario is fictitious. The above obviously cannot be eyewitness testimony. Who forgets or otherwise screws up the last words of their professed redeemer? In the Christian milieu this would have been an occassion of paramount gravity. People would have been paying attention. The reason for the "last words" boondoggle lies in the probability that the crucifixion just didn't happen. The crucifixion (probably in the same respect as the rest of the new testament) was concocted in order to give the impression of fulfilment of percieved prophesy, thereby providing some validation for nascent Christianity, the new kid on the block. Being the new kid on the block, the early Christians had yet to get their theological act together. Thus we have newly minted Christians citing out of context variations in the old testament in a bungled attempt to justify fiction as current events, and one just inventing the whole thing to flesh out his personal idea of a heroic Jesus.

John's source...No idea where John got it from. I suspect he just dreamt it up to illustrate his conception of a heroic Jesus (carried his own cross, don't you know).

Mark's source...Psalms 22:1
My god, My God why have you forsaken me?

Luke's source...Psalms 31:5
Into your hands I commit my spirit; you have redeemed me, O Lord, faithful God.

Like the bulk of the bible, none of these accounts have any valid claims to historicity.

Why would Jesus, who is (allegedly) God, be asking God (himself) why he has forsaken himself?

chickengirl · Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 2:11 am Post subject:

SicPreFix · Sergeant Joined: Feb 21, 2004 Posts: 121 Location: Canada

chickengirl · Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 2:37 pm Post subject:

SicPreFix · Sergeant Joined: Feb 21, 2004 Posts: 121 Location: Canada

It's always fascinating to watch the level headed responses from those who so strongly preach understanding and moral rectitude, and claim to a superior knowing, in particular when they don't appear to have the faintest idea exactly what it is even they themselves are saying.

I never, anywhere, anytime said anything against, about, or for free will. The substantive but implicit (as opposed to explicit) meaning of the phrase "If you won't have eyes to see, and ears to hear, it cannot make sense. You won't get it" [emphasis added], is "if you choose not to see things the way I see them, interpret them, define them, and describe them, you are then unable to see that which is." And plainly put, that's manipulative sophistry, gibberish, and nonsense that gives itself full allowance for endless reinterpretation to suit the author's supposed intent of the moment.

Note: I am using the word "I" in the royal so-called sense.

What the phrase demands is that to be understood as intended by the author there is a secret language only available to the faithful (or whatever) that must be known before understanding arrives, and furthermore, the secret language demands agreement with the message before the message is read. I presume all that might be a bit above your head, for which I loosely apologize. But I'm getting kind of tired of arguing rules of logistics, language, grammar, rhetoric, and rules and modes of communication with credulous yips who just want to redinfe the absolute to suit the moment on any passing whim of offended faith.

You can post all the puking little smileys you want. That will not change the nature of language, rhetoric, or grammatical structure and intent. I'm quite familiar with the simple fact that most religionists are extremely uncomfortable with the fact that language does have rules that must be followed for accurate and successful communication and that those rules are not open to easy manipulation.

Sorry it upsets you so much. If you do not understand the full implication of the words you use (or quote), please don't shoot the messenger for explicating it and spelling it out.

Cheers, ye friendly, open minded, and oh so intellectually generous religionists.

chickengirl · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 1:17 pm Post subject:

Language has rules? What doesn't? I apply the simple rule of humility, in my approach to the understanding of the Bible. That's all I'm saying...One will never get it, until one learns humility...this is the only way to get the "eyes" and "ears" previously mentioned.

Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

James 4:6 & 1Peter 5:5 "God resists the proud, and gives grace to the humble"...

You see, this is MY reality...I will not be so arrogant to say you don't live in reality...but I will say yours is of a worldly nature; and one that would seem to worship knowledge... You have a lot more company than I do.

Luke 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

And I do. I love you sicprefix...I look forward to the day, when the "language" isn't confounded...when love, kindness, and joy are the rule...

ZippyZingo · Corporal Joined: Apr 07, 2004 Posts: 71 Location: USA

Wow, Chickengirl.
What did you do to set Sicprefix off?? What ever it was, you must have hit a nerve!

That post by Sicprefix is a work of art. In an Escher, infinite staircase sort of a way. High Art. I would like to print it off and frame it but I am afraid that some of my friends will ask me what it means and I would not be able to explain it. I think that you used a wrong phrase or word somewhere but I am not sure. I understood your posts just fine but lost Sicprefix somewhere right after:

"It's always fascinating to watch the level headed responses from those who so strongly preach understanding and moral rectitude, and claim to a superior knowing, in particular when they don't appear to have the faintest idea exactly what it is even they themselves are saying."

It was nice of Sicprefix to put this warning in because after that, the post lost me and without that warning, I would never have understood what it was about. I think that it was too highbrow for my severely limited religionist capabilities. Boy do I feel silly.

Or was that part refering to your post.....?

Nah, Your post was pretty clear to me.

I am glad that you got straightened out on who brought up "free will". There for a minute, I thought it was you but.... OH, it was you. Imagine that.

Then there was that bit about "manipulative sophistry, gibberish, and nonsense..." I could not agree more after I tried to read the post several times and still could not make heads of tails of it. I sure wish Sicprefix would write in smaller words so that I could figure it out.

I did get the part about the "secret language" though. Chickengirl, You have got to quit telling people about that, after all, we would not want everyone to be a Christian!

It was nice of Sicprefix to apoligize for talking over your head. It made me realize that I am not the only one who did not get it. But then I am just another easily manipulated, friendly, open minded, and oh so intellectually generous religionists.

I could not find the Puking smiley faces but I am glad to finally know that I can use all of them that I want. Thanks.

</sarcasm>


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