Authorship of the bible

SicPreFix · Sergeant Joined: Feb 21, 2004 Posts: 121 Location: Canada

Okay kiddlings. Here we go, another poll, so slide right up and take a roll.

The question is, What percentage of the bible (approximate of course) is the actual word of God? What I mean is, what precentage of the text in the bible do you believe is actually authored by God and not by the hand of man?

Go Go Go! Have a vote.

Smile

MrsHoppes · Sergeant Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 122 Location: USA

I think you already know my answer.

Greyhound · Trooper Joined: Mar 14, 2004 Posts: 20 Location: USA

SicPreFix · Sergeant Joined: Feb 21, 2004 Posts: 121 Location: Canada

Sure I do, sure I do.

But vote anyway! Vote often. C'mon, take a stand; make your views known to the world. Stand on the proud legs of your vehement faith. Have some fun.

Greyhound · Trooper Joined: Mar 14, 2004 Posts: 20 Location: USA

SicPreFix · Sergeant Joined: Feb 21, 2004 Posts: 121 Location: Canada

Good fellow. Glad you did.

ekrubtap · Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:07 pm Post subject:

There is little question re the human authorship of the bible. There is a claim to divine inspiration re the Pentateuch (the Torah or 5 Books Of Moses) or, if you're really traditional Jewish or fundamentalist Christian, then you are probably of the opinion that Moses took dictation from God on Mount Sinai (God spoke verrrrrry slowly while Moses chiseled frantically and wore Gods patience with repeated requests for repetition).
Despite said dictation the penta T apparently remained a largely oral tradition for about 600 or so years (think of the party game where a whispered sentence is passed around the room to arrive back at the source within seconds totally garbelled). AT this point the various books were assembled and connected with "And it came to pass"s.
There is also a tradition of two authors refered to as J and E, J often considered as female.
Then there is the tradition of the verbal traditions splitting with the division of the kingdom into Judah in the south, Israel/Ephraim in the north. When Israel is clobbered by Assyria in 722 BC refugees flee south and the by now variegated stories are recombined.
At this point, there are at least three different texts. There were other texts as well which were apparently lost.
This is where the "Redactor" enters the scene and does the aforementioned recombining.
I have also come across statements re the oldest extant texts of the Old Testament in Hebrew being those found at Qumran which date only to two or three centuries before Christ. The oldest version before those were discovered was a Greek translation apparently from about the same period. The earliest complete Hebrew text allegedly dates only from the tenth century AD or so.
Nobody knows who wrote the new testament. Seems there was a tradition of appending apostles names to writings in order to lend an air of authority to said scribblings. There was quite a bit of disparity in tales of like occurences by different authors. Iraneus, bishop of Lyons in 180 AD,
decided that validity rested on being authored by one of the apostles. See above sentence about appending apostles names.
The new T seems to have been penned between circa 60AD to c.130AD., again following a period of oral rendition: after all, the second coming was imminent, why bother to write it down. The basically final version was ratified in Rome in 473 AD.
Luther, in his kick at the can, determined that if a book preached Jesus it was apostolic and acceptable. If it did not, it was not.
Other Christian sects have their own versions, containing this and /or excluding that. Pretty well all versions have been arrived at through voting a book or (alleged) author in or out.
I suppose the bible could be summed up as writings of indeterminate time, by indeterminate authors, of indeterminate veracity.
The history of the bible, like the contents of the bible, is largely a schlomozzle.

SicPreFix · Sergeant Joined: Feb 21, 2004 Posts: 121 Location: Canada

MrsHoppes · Sergeant Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 122 Location: USA

What is this poll supposed to prove? That those who don't believe the Bible don't believe and those that do believe the Bible to be written by God do?
It doesn't change the facts.

A thousand people could decide to make 2+2=5. That does not change what is.

The Bible is the Word of the Living God. Who put the pen to paper? Paul wrote some letters. Moses did some writing. Isaiah wrote a bit. Solomon has a few things in there. As does David.
Know this, though. God is the author.

SicPreFix · Sergeant Joined: Feb 21, 2004 Posts: 121 Location: Canada

The poll is not here to prove anything Mrs. Hoppes. It's simply here to answer the question it asks. That's all. It satisfies my curiosity, and perhaps some other folks curiosity. I know zealouts like yourself Mrs. Hoppes don't particularily cotton to things like curiosity. But I do.

As for the rest of your post:

MrsHoppes · Sergeant Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 122 Location: USA

[quote]Whew. I been saved by da bell indeed I have.[/qoute]

So, when are you going to be saved by His sacrifice?

shamash · Corporal Joined: Mar 21, 2004 Posts: 70 Location: USA

The Books know as the Bible were written by men and not the hand of God. They may have been inspired by God but certainly not written by God, and there is a huge difference. The writers of the Bible were also human and made many mistakes in the process. The true authors of the Bible are still unknown to date.

ekrubtap · Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 4:59 pm Post subject:

I couldn't even go with "inspired" by God (obviously, I guess). Entirely too many atrocities ("angels" used as weapons of mass destruction), more sex than you could shake a stick at (which is fine by me, one of the more admirable aspects of the bible, actually, but I can't see this God being quite so preoccupied with the subject). Entirely too many contradictions, fallacies. and general weirdness. (creation happened twice, different methodology the second time, Yaweh, Jehova, or Jah, I forget which, offhand, must have blown it big time the first time around.)
A lot of folk these days disclaim the literal truth of the bible (after 2000 years of blind acceptance, a little heat is applied and the biblicests cave like a deck of cards.) or attempt to disassociate God and Jesus from biblical embarassments. Is there another authority that speaks to the existance of God/Jesus? Sorry, if the bible goes, G/J must not be far behind. To express belief in G/J without the "proofs" of the bible is really getting out there in La La Land. Belief in Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, and the Boogy Man would be equally valid and sensible.
Sometimes I think people who express belief in deities are really expressing a wish. A wish for someone with power to make it all better. If only.

shamash · Corporal Joined: Mar 21, 2004 Posts: 70 Location: USA

Ekrubtap, you respond this way because you operate from your intellect only. The Sciences are good, but look where They have gotten us, to the edge of ruin of this planet. Some things can only be experienced thru the heart.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Ekrubtap, than are dreamt of in your philosophy- (Shakespeare).

I don't have to believe the Bible is accurate to believe in God or Christ. My belief is the Bible has been inaccurately translated and is full of old stories anyway. But that doesn't mean it is all bunk.There are other sources besides the Bible such as the dead sea scrolls or the naj hammadi scrolls that talk of God and Christ.

vive la difference (celebrate the differences) remember?

ekrubtap · Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:54 pm Post subject:

You may have a point there. The only thing I experience with my heart is the odd palpatation when I drink too much coffee. Though emotionally speaking, I don't think you can blame science for the state of the world. It is the fault of people. Probably religious people. Very Happy

The naj hammadi library was buried about 400 CE, could be contemporaneous with the rest of the biblical writings and of similar veracity. The DSScrolls were written (apparently) between 200 BCE and 68 CE.
Although the Qumran community existed during the time of the ministry of Jesus, none of the Scrolls refer to Him, nor do they mention any of His follower's described in the New Testament. And I would pretty well consider this conclusive. How could they possibly not have heard of Jesus or his deciples? Maybe because the Essenes were a strict Torah observant, Messianic, apocalyptic, baptist, wilderness, new covenant Jewish sect. They were led by a priest they called the "Teacher of Righteousness," who was opposed and possibly killed by the establishment priesthood in Jerusalem. Source of the Jesus myth?


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