@ Mrs. Hoppes.

SicPreFix · Sergeant Joined: Feb 21, 2004 Posts: 121 Location: Canada

Hiya Mrs. H. This is an honest, and I hope legitimate question, not a troll.

You said in one of the other threads here that "We left a Souther Baptist Church due to false teachings." Now, as I am sure even you will agree Priests, Preachers, Imams, Rabbis, et al must use a certain amount of interpretation to do their work. All religious texts require a certain amount of interpretation simply because there is a great deal of ambiguity in almost all text - that's the nature of the work, not to mention the vagaries on changes in language over time, as I'm sure you would agree. Anyway, my question is, how did you know, or maybe I should say, how did you determine that you were being presented with false teachings? What was your criteria to make such a determination? How did you verify for yourself that you were correct in your conclusions?

MrsHoppes · Sergeant Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 122 Location: USA

It started out with someone asking the question "If a person who is saved were to kill someone, would that person still get to heaven?"
(I did not ask this question. Someone else did.) The pastor said "Yes."
The answer did not feel right. Actually, I felt sick when I heard the answer. (PLEASE, NO SELF-DEFENSE DEBATE. WE ARE TALKING MURDER.)
Anyway, I studied my bible deeply for about 6 months. I researched a topic I had never considered until this question came up. The "OSAS vs OSNAS" debate. I quietly studied and researched and when another question came up regarding the same topic, I quietly spoke up. The pastor handeled it badly and basically left me to defend my thoughts on the topic against 8 other people.
I left that night and wrote a 12 page report on my thoughts concerning salvation and what it is and isn't and how a person can walk away from their salvation. He never read it. I handed him other references and he accused me of calling him a false teacher.
One Sunday night, he did a "sermon" on OSAS. He said the false additions to salvation were
1. Baptism. (Ok... the thief on the cross was too busy hanging around to find a river to get dunked. But what about baptism of the Holy Spirit?)
2. Confession. (Confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus....??? Hmmm.. contradicts scripture. So how can it be a false addition?)
3. Repentance. (Repent and be baptised? Repent and turn to God? How can repentance be false if we are to repent of our sins?)
4. Acceptance. (If we are not accepting Him, then we are rejecting Him. So Acceptance is false HOW?)
5. Prayer. (Any communication with God is prayer.)
He even quoted scripture and said it was wrong. Since then I have gotten into a few friendly debates conserning once saved always saved verses losing one's salvation. I don't mind the debates, but as soon as he said God was wrong we knew it was time to leave.

BTW, feel free to ask me any questions. 9 times out of 10, I'll answer. And if I don't, I'll tell you why. Smile

SicPreFix · Sergeant Joined: Feb 21, 2004 Posts: 121 Location: Canada

Okay thanks Mrs. H. You have satisfied my curiosity.

By the bye, what is the OSAS vs. OSNAS debate?

MrsHoppes · Sergeant Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 122 Location: USA

OSAS = Once Saved Always Saved. (Say these words then do what you want cuz you'll still get into heaven.)

OSNAS = Once Saved Not Always Saved. (You can lose your salvation through deliberate disobedience, an unrepentant spirit, and walking away from the Lord.)

ZippyZingo · Corporal Joined: Apr 07, 2004 Posts: 71 Location: USA

Mrs. H. I applaud you for taking a stand when it could not have been easy for you. As a fellow christian, I have come to understand that there is "the" truth but in this flawed world, it is hard to find. It is fortunate that God loves us enough to make allowances for our ignorance. I know by experience that God leads those of us who have truly open minds and hearts to those truths. It sounds as if this is what happened to you.
I have noticed several post which slam your position as a Christian. There are some who respect what you stand for. Christanity is something that is experienced. The whole point is for us to establish a personal relationship with God. Some people do not seem to be intrested in doing this and it is always easy to attack that which we do not understand. Hang in there. Some of us care even if others do not.

SicPreFix · Sergeant Joined: Feb 21, 2004 Posts: 121 Location: Canada

ZippyZingo, it must be stated, however obvious it may be, that just because some of us do not wish to, or for that matter believe in establishing a relationship with that which you call God does not mean we do not understand what that means, what is entailed in doing so, and what is represented by doing so.

I believe that I can respect Mrs Hoppes communication without respecting her beliefs. I respect her right to hold those beliefs even when I do not respect the beliefs themelves, and that has, at least in an ideal situation, little play on my attitude to the individual known as Mrs. Hoppes. Unless I misunderstand her, that is approximately what she does in regard to me.

MrsHoppes · Sergeant Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 122 Location: USA

Thank you, Zippy. I must say, however, that I do get a lot of respect here. And though some of the posts make me want to bang my head against a brick wall (I have one in the kitchen) I also know that the posters are not attacking me personally.
People (like SicPreFix) do treat me with respect and courtesy even if they don't like the way I think and feel about my Father and Creator. Just as I respect their beliefs or non-beliefs even if I don't understand them.
And just as I do try to understand how a person can NOT believe, they are trying to understand how I CAN believe. (Atleast I think that is what they are trying to do. Sic... yes? no? I'm nuts? Don't answer that last one. LOL)

SicPreFix · Sergeant Joined: Feb 21, 2004 Posts: 121 Location: Canada

MrsHoppes · Sergeant Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 122 Location: USA

Psalm 19

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

MrsHoppes · Sergeant Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 122 Location: USA

Psalm 97

The LORD reigneth; let the earth rejoice; let the multitude of isles be glad thereof.
Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne.
A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about.
His lightnings enlightened the world: the earth saw, and trembled.
The hills melted like wax at the presence of the LORD, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.
The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the people see his glory.
Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols: worship him, all ye gods.
Zion heard, and was glad; and the daughters of Judah rejoiced because of thy judgments, O LORD.
For thou, LORD, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods.
Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.
Light is sown for the righteous, and gladness for the upright in heart.
Rejoice in the LORD, ye righteous; and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness.


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