Why I Am An Atheist

ekrubtap · Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 9:09 pm Post subject: Why I Am An Atheist

I used to be a Christian, I used to be a Grand Knight of the Altar. I belonged to youth groups. Now I am an atheist. There was no epiphany (or rather-un-epiphany, I spose.) I was never molested. Nobody talked me into it. I just gradually came to see the light.
Religious chauvinism, like national chauvinism, economic chauvinism, and yes, male chauvinism, is one of the most destructive forces in existence. My god is bigger than your god. My god can beat up your god. God damn it! (on my behalf). Religious chauvinism can and just might devour the world. There is and has been a concerted effort by the religious right to gain the mantle of government power. Every thinking person must and should shudder at the thought of a bible thumping hell-fire and brimstone armageddonist with a finger on the nuclear trigger. It would, in all probability, be the last mistake we make. And we are perilously close.
Those who believe in God used to say the earth was the center of the universe, when in reality they placed themselves individually and collectively in the center of the universe. They still do. They have a grandiose vision of a God that they perceive as having little better to do that cater to their every whim. Christians had enough Gods that they had one suffer torture to redeem their petty trespasses. They have a number of gods (having miraculously turned a prophet into a god) because even at that late date they couldn't shake the old pagan polytheistic influence, just as the early Elohim/Yahweh referred repeatedly to "us" and sometimes appeared to be talking to himself. It took the early Hebrews awhile to nail down the monotheist concept. (I say the early Hebrews, but I've recently read a book on archaeology in the "holy land" wherein thru DNA testing it is now believed that the Hebrews were just your run of the mill Canaanites who moved into the hills. -"It Ain't Necessarily So", Matthew Sturgis, 2003) So guess who is traditionally held to be descended from said Canaanites. The Palestinian people. Its a possibility they are the same people. (Current DNA tests have not been done at time of publication and I've not seen any other sources yet).
So where was I? Oh yeah, mono/poly theism. This would explain why the Hebrew God seemed to suffer from schizophrenia, or even multiple personality disorder. God is, in fact, an amalgamation of a number of different pagan gods with differing areas of expertise. Seems that Elohim (from El, the king of the gods ruler of the pantheon),is plural. And Yahweh was the name of the major ancient Canaanite pagan god. But more on the history of God later.
As I've said, people of religion tend to place themselves in the center of the universe (tho not a universal tenet) and view their relationship with God as a personal one and perceived attacks on (questioning or refuting) their god, as attacks on their persons. Thus we have anger when beliefs are questioned. Thus we have blasphemy. Death to the unbeliever is not an original Muslim tenet but in all probability learned from the Hebrews and Christians. A bloodthirsty lot throughout history, all three. The Muslims seem to be at the point in their history where Christians were in the sixteenth century. Death to the heretics. Christianity just had a 600 year head start.
With a few exceptions (Martin Luther King comes to mind) the Christian Church stands and has historically stood, on the side of repression and regression. Always fond of burning and banning books and knowledge. Suffering humanity has been forever taught to postpone their hopes and dreams for a non-existent heavenly utopia. A colossal swindle ordained to pacify the masses to the enrichment of church and state.
And it's worked so well throughout history that nowadays everybody and their dog is getting in on the act. There are thousands of religions, sects and cults out there. I would think that if your omni-omni god existed (or any other god, for that matter) he would have a better grip on things after a few thousand years of practice.
Christianity, like all religions, is a superstitious cult. Only the fact that it is a cult that we have been raised in saves us from mass consultation with the brainwash eliminators. If we didnt indoctrinate our children, but left them free of religious influence until they achieved an age of majority, and then allowed them to choose from the worlds religions or not, the world would probably be a much nicer place to live. But the religious powers that be (the human demi-gods in frocks) would never acquiesce to that, would they? Cause then the whole palatial cathedral of cards would come tumbling down.
Probably the main reason that Im an atheist, tho, is that the concept of God is non-sensical and irrelevant to all but its own support structure. There is nothing of a realistic nature that is attributed to God that God is necessary for. Barring the supernatural, Disneyesque attributes, God is redundant. To attribute the supernatural, Disneyesque attributes solely to a god of your choosing is non-sensical.
.God is not dead, God has never existed.
If God were reality there would be real effects (evidence) that could be pointed to. Such has never existed in the entire mythical history of religion. And never will. Religion is the biggest con that ever has, and (hopefully) ever will be pulled on mankind, and sadly, you are all misguided dupes. I know that last statement is going to piss a lot of you off (see above re blaphsemy etc), but I (and a lot of others) believe it to the core of my being. And being a dupe doesnt mean you are a bad person, just unsuspecting and unknowing.
Religion is at best a waste of time and energy that could be better utilized to effect real change for the better. At worst, and all too often, religion is murder.

ZippyZingo · Corporal Joined: Apr 07, 2004 Posts: 71 Location: USA

AH... Ek! It SOUNDS so good... but Oh, how little you know. Sad

ekrubtap · Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 3:18 pm Post subject:

Well Zippy, I'm afraid that's one of the problems re fundamentalism, the consideration that religious knowledge (I use the term loosely) is the be all and end all of required learning. I would compare it to ostriches burying their heads in the sand, but that is just another belief that is untrue. Like much of your "word of God"

Eccl.7,3:4...for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better. The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning; but the heart of the fool is in the house of mirth.

Verily I say unto you, the word of God has struck out again. Today we know the opposite is much healthier. But then Strong's Strongly Christian Interpretations probably sez that sadness means happiness, fool means astute, war is peace, and slavery is freedom (oh wait, no..that was Big Brother, not the Big Guy)

How many books do you think there might have been published re understanding and interpreting the bible? Thousands, tens of thousands? Out of curiosity I just did a quick Google search for "interpreting the bible" 15,800 returns, and "understanding the bible" 22,900 returns. Seems to me a lot of concern that folks get the right "spin" on what, as the "Word of God" should be straightforward. Nobody need attend the University of God to understand the ten commandments.
Perhaps, with your knowledge of scripture, you could explain a few points for me (speaking of the ten commandments).
Why is it that Ex4:21 & 9:12 have God hardening Pharaoh's heart, yet Ex8:15 has Pharaoh hardening his own heart.(or make obstinate or whatever depending on Bib. version)
And why is it that in Ex9:3,6 God slew all the Egyptiams horses, asses and cattle, yet shortly there after (Ex14:9) the Pharaoh"s army is riding their horse's asses hot on the heels of the Mosaics.
In Ex Moses flees Egypt fearing Pharaoh, in Heb he flees Not fearing Pharaoh.
Then of course we have Moses the Murderer in Ex2:12, The confusion (similar to Joseph) re Moses' father in law; Ex3:1 etc -"Jethro", Jg4:11,Num10:29,-"Hobab". Ex3:22 where God commands the Hebrew women to break the 8th commandment, Ex4:11 where God brags about
making people deaf and blind.
How about that odd little series in Ex4:23,24,25 where God threatens to kill Pharaoh's son, then threatensto kill Moses, but is appeased when Moses wife whacks off his son's foreskin with a rock, throws it at his feet and commences to berate him. Jeez, a rock, owwww, pretty harsh. But fortunately Zipporah (the wife), apparently never had a rock handy when she and Moses were smooching, 'cause Moses had uncircumcised lips. (Ex6:12) BwawwwwHawwwHawwwhawhaw!!! (I love this stuff) I could go on and on (got a million of 'em), but the book thing is creeping up here, I suspect, and I should save that for the more serious stuff. So remember folks, when you're feeling low, reach for your bible. It'l have you chuckling in no time.

Freddy57 · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 3:59 pm Post subject:

I have known many atheists during my lifetime. They were all the same, talking about how bad religon is (I agree by the way, religion can be horrible) and that God does not exist. It was really easy for them to talk about how stupid Christians were for believing in a God that they could not see. As long as life was good for them, they were this way. The day that they found out that they were dying, whether from cancer, which most of them died from; they were smokers, or some other disease, their tunes changed. All of them, without exception, all of a sudden stopped being venomous about God and started asking questions about how to get back in His good graces. I even saw some of them lay on the floor and cry begging His forgiveness for their lives. You may be different, I don't know, but in my experience, I have never met a TRUE atheist.

lilliebet65 · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 6:35 pm Post subject:

Welcome to a new experience Smile

ekrubtap · Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 10:39 am Post subject:

chickengirl · Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:31 am Post subject:

Hey Ek!

wow...I tried to find out what a "Grand Knight of the Altar" was, (sounds a little scary) and from a couple of the search engines, your posts here at CC came up... Very Happy

ekrubtap · Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 4:11 pm Post subject:

Hey there CK.
No, I avoid pork rinds and bacon (nitrates as well as artery clogging cholesterol), as well as (dare I mention it?) chicken skin. So your hide is safe, but keep an eye on the thigh!

I don't think the ancient Isrealites were quite as health concious, tho. Wasn't their pork prohibition due to the designation of pigs as unclean? Which I find baffling. I've raised pigs and they are about the cleanest animals going (given half a chance, ie not crowded). They'll go to the farthest corner of the pen to crap and avoid that corner except for the conducting of said business. They like to wallow in mud, but that is to protect them from the sun and biting insects. I 'spose pigs back then might have been different animals to a degree, but to evolve from unclean to fastidious in such a (relatively) short time beggars the imagination.

A Grand Knight of the Altar was a ranking in the altar boy realm (Catholic). Sort of a Generalissimo among altar boys. But it goes even beyond that. Being the eldest son of Irish Catholic parentage, my percieved destiny within my extended (aunts, uncles, cousins) family was the priesthood. Alas and alack, I was a dissapointment for a few years 'till they got over it.

I totally concur with your list of things that are not funny but people laugh at to my perplexity. Tho I must admit to being accused on more than one occassion of having a rather sharpish (cynical) sense of humour.

The point in time when Christians should have been singing, "Don't they-ey know, It's the end, of the world. It ended, when you said, good-bye." was clearly in the lifetime of the apostles.
See http://computercops.biz/postt34781.html
and the link in my reply to Bro. Fred, right above your post.

Nice to have you back. I was beginning to think I was going to have to play "angel's advocate". It is the busy time of year.

Cheers...........

ejr · Cadet Joined: Jun 10, 2004 Posts: 9 Location: USA

Hey, I'm not judging you at all. But man, have you ever thought about what is going to happen if you are wrong? If there is a God, and you are a non believer, you've just bought an eternity in hell. OUCH.

I do believe in God. I am a Chritian.

But even if you aren't Christian, I find it difficult not to believe in some supreme being. I mean, do you really buy into the big bang theory? Look at the miracle of life. Look at the Earth. Look at the Universe. Do you really think this all just came to be with no divine intervention?

chickengirl · Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:30 am Post subject:

ekrubtap · Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:06 pm Post subject:

Hey, ejr, welcome........

Actually, ejr, I consider the possibility of my being wrong on this so infinitesimally small so as to deny the necessity of contemplation. But let's, for a moment, consider that you are right.

I am a person who strives to live "right", according to the golden rule. I try to help others within my abilities, and never attempt to cause harm. I drink very moderately (2-3 beers, once a month or so down at the local fire hall dance) and generally try to be one of the guys in the white hats.

Do you really think any kind of merciful god would condemn me to, what?---the eternal barbeque? (Definitions of hell are as shifty as concepts of Christianity) for trying to live a good life. Do you really believe that any god worth his weight in "souls" would create everything just to be able to bask in eternal and abject adoration? Why? Was he lonely?

Life is not a miracle. Life is a biological process. Science is within a few years of creating life in a petri dish, a la the primordial soup variety. What then of God?

Nobody "buys into" the big bang theory. This is one of those less than honest Christian arguments along the lines of claiming that atheists would have you believe that you are descended from apes. An outright lie. But standard operating procedure for Christian apologists.
(If there is a hell, 99.9% of Christian apologists will be standing in line ahead of me, should that be my fate, along with a pile of Popes, bishops, priests, ministers, Saints, nuns, televangelists, faith healers, missionaries and other assorted religious do-badders.)

A theory is just that, a theory. It's not something that is proposed as truth, but as the most plausible explanation for the observed phenomena. The Big Bang is entirely more plausible than
Universal creation by a supernatural being. As Steven Hawking states, the Big Bang is a beginning that is required by the dynamical laws that govern the universe. It is therefore intrinsic to the universe, and is not imposed on it from outside.

Aside from indoctrination, what makes you think the existence of anything requires the existence of a divine progenitor. Chaotic inflation theory postulates that any physicist hacker with a decent lab could create a universe with as little as a hundred-thousandth of a gram of matter. An intelligent being perhaps, but not necessarily omni-divine.

Do you believe in ghosties and goblins, tooth fairies and Santa Clause? I trust not. Why one particular supernatural being instead of another? Because youve been told so by someone with a
propagation of the faith axe to grind. When trying to decide if the coin is real or counterfeit, you have to look at both sides. Never stop learning.

jalberts · Corporal Joined: Nov 06, 2003 Posts: 57 Location: USA

Hey Ek, I Geezed but no one Geezed back Wink

I'm wth you 150% on this. I'm really glad that you were able to break the brainwashing cycle and see the light of reality. Really refreshing.

I'm reminded of the line in Sagan's movie Contact, in which the priest character asks the astronomer character if she really thinks the other 95% of the world is wrong (believing in a god). She didn't answer, but I answered a resounding YES!!
Especially considering the other 95% of the world have been killing each other over their religions over the millennia, that just has to be wrong.

ekrubtap · Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:18 pm Post subject:

Thanx, Jeff. Wish I had been writing for the movie. I would have had her come back with something along the lines of, " Well, do YOU think 100% of the known world was wrong when they thought the earth was flat?

I think 95% is a bit of an exageration. Of those who do believe in a god, it isn't, in a lot of cases, the western concept of Jehovah/Jesus. And even among Christians there are at least 50 different sects. Where I a God, I'd hire me a secretary to straighten this schlamozzle out.

76.5% (159 million) of Americans identify themselves as Christian. This is a major slide from 86.2% in 1990. Identification with Christianity has suffered a loss of 9.7 percentage points in 11 years -- about 0.9 percentage points per year.

14.1% do not follow any organized religion. This is an unusually rapid increase from only 8% in 1990).

ekrubtap · Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:04 pm Post subject:

Hey Chickengirl

"I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." -Winston Churchhill

Miss Piggy says, "Never eat more than you can lift".

jalberts · Corporal Joined: Nov 06, 2003 Posts: 57 Location: USA

Any god who would allow Ernest Angely to exist has GOT to be whacko anyway....


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